[Start of Transcript]

Interviewer: I have a fantastic Guest on the show today Dave Will, a serial Entrepreneur starting a new company ‘Prop Fuel’ which will get into a later and he’s been an EO and building relationships is what he does well and it’s I’ve researched you a lot and found amazing things and great insights and I’ve actually learned quite a bit about being an Entrepreneur and living in a startup world and exiting; So thanks for coming on the show.

Dave Will: Sure of course thanks, it’s actually nice.

Interviewer: Tell us a little bit about your background, where you grew up, your family because I think it’s great to give people insights where you came from so they can really understand your journey.

Dave Will: Yeah I wish I had a story about growing up in the plains of Africa or in school all there and you know living homeless and the thing that Tony Robbins he’s got some great stories. I don’t have a great grow-up story. Oh! let me rephrase that I actually do have a great grow-up story, it’s something I really enjoyed, my childhood was awesome you know we were lower-middle class, I grew up in kind of a nondescript part of Connecticut always going to New England boy and my Parents were married for a very long time until my Mother passed.

Interviewer: What do your parents do for a living?

Dave Will: My Mother was a Teacher; my Father was an Engineer OK My Father is still, is a really smart guy, like really smart guy and then he.

 

It’s for I must get a generation is my kids are really smart too my brother and I, we you know we get Celebes in school.

Interviewer: When you were going to school, is there anything that you loved or passionate about like studying or figuring things out?

Dave Will: I love the big cheese, that’s what we call that on the recess and assisting at look like a saddle and I don’t even know how to describe it I could probably of oblique drop picture there was this weird geometrical shape, it’s called The Big Cheese that’s what I loved in school. So, when it comes to what I loved in school, it was not the reading, it was not the writing and it wasn’t the Arithmetic.

Interviewer: How’s that?

Dave Will: So, that’s yeah I’m not an academic, which is a funny because at one point. I think it was it when I was actually so I left college and I went back to pretty traditional path and left college worked for a couple years a big Fortune 500 companies and then…

Interviewer: Why do you start on that path just work because it was like it seemed to be the natural way has things to do right?

Dave Will: Exactly! when your Mom’s a Teacher and your Dad’s an Engineer; Yeah and you grew up with this dream of one day making a hundred thousand dollars you know like if I could make a hundred thousand dollars in a career, that I’d look at that and I think my God that’s the talk about shooting for the stars, you know yeah I did not have great aspirations of walking on the moon. You know I grew up in it everything about my life growing up it was again it was a phenomenal childhood my Parents or family was wonderful what a great vacations now when I say that we I didn’t find an airplane till late high school I think and that was a school trip and you know I was in the Boy Scouts, I was in the marching band, I was in a great athlete, I developed late in life and I was an average student. So, I took an average path in life you know I worked for the big company.

Interviewer: And that’s S.A.P?

Dave Will: Not yet there was a label there so I went to college I got a job at the Fortune five hundred I got my M.B.A. and I know at that point interesting Lee enough I thought maybe I should be a professor because now I’m Gallo cocky and think I went to Penn State you know which is a top 25 Business school. Will it is it’s I say I like better because it’s funny you see that I thought…

Interviewer: What about teaching turned you on or excited you?

Dave Will: Access to the gym, access to the larking around campus just at the freedom that you have being a Professor on campus kind of defining your own career path, it wasn’t the reading, writing, arithmetic that turned me on, it’s so it is just you know I was young, I had all these strange per perspectives of how to create a career path you know, so my career path was focused on what can I get out of it as opposed to what can I dive into? You know is a totally different mentality and I went down that path from me.

Interviewer: What changed your perspective and what Seminole pivotal event or person real only made it all shift because obviously you’ve shifted gears in a big way from that thinking to where you are today?

Dave Will: It wasn’t necessarily a person as much as it was an event and the event was I got fired, so I worked. So, again I worked for Nilson Craft General Foods, MBA and Pricewaterhouse Coopers traveling nonstop to a good job, I had really good jobs and am making pretty good money. And then I didn’t want to travel as much so I found a niche boutique doing systems integration stuff and by the way, I worked for SAP for a very short period of time as an intern, a summer intern in between my M.B.A. And working for the small boutique, it just so happened that small boutiques don’t do so well when the bubble burst; Yes and so this is back in 2001 when technocrats you bubble burst and so now they’re not getting the business they need and so they look and figure out where is their greatest return. I was making a little more money than I should for what I was bringing into the business, they did the absolute right thing, and they fired me. So, I remember very clearly 10:30 in the morning 2001, in the spring was actually so it was actually in April. I remember walking to the Pier in Boston waiting for the ferry as I took the ferry and to downtown Boston from where I live and I called my wife from the pier to let her know I was coming home. And I remember as soon as I heard her voice I don’t think I said anything I just burst into tears. I imagined her and I could even hear our first born son is who’s 16 now, almost 17 and he was in her arms I could hear him cooing, blabbering talking about stuff. And she answered the phone and I thought we had just moved into this new home. And if someone affluent part of the South Shore of Boston, she wasn’t working and we have this baby. Shit! I just got fired and so you know in a heartbeat, my whole plan crumbled.

Interviewer: How were you feeling?

Dave Will: Oh Jesus! I was in tears, but what cause I mean the letting people down, did you think or hope no one ever expects that’s a great question so you know they say that you feel like you’re letting your wife down like every like son so I my 9months old son, my Wife, my Father.

Interviewer: Why your Father?

Dave Will: Well, they say that we’re always trying to please our fathers you know that’s something I read when I was, when we had three boys and as a raising Will I actually wrote this book called Raising Boys and so I was reasonably is one of the things I read which run through with me, no matter what stage of life around we’re always trying to impress our fathers. My father was a great Dad, he is a great Dad and there is nothing in particular he did that warrants me having to prove myself to him but it’s just something that that I think we as young men and adults always strive to do. Whether you come from an abusive relationship with your father wanted to prove to him that you’re a value or come from of a loving relationship with your father, you want to prove on that he was right. The latter is more true for me but regardless you know I felt like I had let other people down I felt like I’d been exposed like people need a little fraud now all of a sudden you know I’m not when I when I always said it was a being I’m not a not valuable to this company.

Interviewer: And you feel like an impostor or just being exposed to people just saw that you really couldn’t do? What you thought you could do?

Dave Will: I never felt like work was a part of who I was, very work was a place I went to, work was something I did, work was something I tried to get out of, and work is something I wasn’t very good at. So, did I feel like an impostor? I don’t know I felt like I lived for before 9 in the morning and after 5pm, it kind of it you know and even though I was 30years old, I wasn’t a kid you know, I was 30years old, you’d think by then I would have figured it out. Will I think most people do actually…

Interviewer: But as a people reinventing themselves now and you know way later on different stages of their lives, I think it’s challenging because everything changes different points and what you want or your things mattered to you from my experience yet in life and had it

Dave Will: It’s also possible that I mean I had lived a very comfortable life, I didn’t have a lot of hardship you know. We didn’t have a lot of wealth compared to a lot of people I knew either. But we had a very solid family I had great experiences in life, I was well educated. So, you know I needed something jarring

Interviewer: And this was something jarring. So, what did you do from this moment one of this moment propelled?

Dave Will: Yes, so I went home and I trimmed the edges so that’s And naturally as what anyone would do when you’re fired so it’s about noon, I’m home and not really hungry. So, no sandwich so what am I to do so? I trim the edges; so I remember that it’s are going out and I got my weed whacker and my wife, she doesn’t know what to do she’s just kind of trying to be as positive as possible and so I get the weed whacker and I think it was like 3-4minutes it and I sliced my finger open just like my mind was not there I was in a haze and weed whack in and that wasn’t weed whacker, it was like a edges, trimming the edges and in the blade from this is the thing trimming the edges, slices my finger and I got blown to look at a bone on my finger granted I could lose the finger and that would have been the greatest hardship my life or the point so but we did you know so I asked my wife, I said, I think we need to go to the hospital, so we get a car and again we’re new to town so I said. I know there’s a South Shore Hospital that’s like 20minutes away, let’s just go to this one I saw but it’s not that big a deal to is small hospitals fine so we go to this place that we don’t have to get on the highway just kind of around town never seen the sign for this hospital and so we take a left at the Dunkin Donuts and we’re going on the other 120yards or so and then on the left there’s this hospital and she goes into emergency just enough and I go in like this and like this and I cut my finger and might need some stages of some of this he says Will that’s that looks bad, you should go to a hospital like Oh Where am I And she says you were in a psychiatric hospital. So, that was my experience so that’s what I did that’s what I did when I got fired is I ended up going to a psychiatric hospital for the wrong reason but maybe it was the right place. So, ultimately I got a little scar that’s about it. To really answer your question I tried to get another job and I did actually, I got another job offer and I remember this feeling this is really dark feeling, it’s a feeling that I own that I have this feeling inside my head for the rest of my life but in my heart to remember thinking about this job and to commute into Cambridge Massachusetts and Tech company cool company cool job creator making about the same was making in my last job. The offer came through like within 2weeks of getting fired; sweet so I’ve even had a little severance and I mean perfect right yeah I should take. That I just didn’t want to it is just another whose is this point where I have hit this realization. That it’s just doing the wrong things and a friend of mine had come to me recently.

Interviewer: How do you figure that? I mean he just was just not passionate your dislike to after just do this another ‘9-5’ job all over again and like because…

Dave Will: You know there was a lot of fear knowing that that they thought I was much more capable at doing what they needed done than I actually confidence in, so going on the first day of the job I mean I sure I could probably learn it. But I His didn’t want to have a similar experience where you go into something with these people having expectations of something that you can deliver and you just got to figure it out

Interviewer: You’re just getting sick and tired of having to live up to these new expectations and you’re going to talk?

Dave Will: I’m a great chameleon, I did what I have a blended into what I was supposed to have the chameleon and so, I want to see him get dark feeling that the finances give you start feeling we have a dark feeling about something generally you don’t want to do it right? But we got to put food on the table and we did not have a big savings account.

Interviewer: So, what do you?

Dave Will: So, a friend of mine came to me with this is like with right around the same period of time for him I came to me with his name is Rick came to me with this thing called Web conferencing and that was back in 2001 OK So, he came to his web conferencing and said look I have a relationship so I think you can get us in licenses and I know a ton of people that need this stuff so, we actually had this acronym here and over the acronym but it stood for that tired old sales executive. That was exactly what it was but that was the person we’re going after not to be negative we weren’t necessarily insulting this person that was our persona, that was our target audience was the person that’s tired old and generally in the sales area and it did and by the way relative but somebody was late in their career now because you know typing with tons and fingers and this is a pre- phone from two and we wanted to hold their hand through this process so they weren’t going to just go by wed-X.. go to meeting didn’t exist yet. And didn’t go to meeting that we didn’t exist yet I don’t think so wetbacks was the only major player out there but we had licenses and we just started selling these things, reselling them and that over time evolved into the business that I sold 14years later to private equity, massive transition, massively pivoted

Interviewer: But you started out from nothing and got up to make these phone calls that mean [oh yeah a lot oh my God] that must have been the difficult if you had never done anything like that.

Interviewer: Oh my God! No for the first time ever, I made $40,000 my first year so I was making enough just to support a company I mean it’s making enough for the family in a new or at a fairly affluent area but when I got fired, then I come down making $40,000 a year which is really difficult to live on and again yet in this neighborhood with a baby and the word wife is not working not to mention debt from my M.B.A. and I’m sure we had a car loan and all this other stuff that we had to pay so you know I was making $40,000 in the first year and that was even debatable whether or not we could and that was $40,000 year that wasn’t like $40,000 profit that was $40,000 in revenue. I think we made the first year

Interviewer: Between you and your partner?

Dave Will: Yes So he had a full time job so he wasn’t getting there about an hour if you know that it was it was 50-50, I never thought about actually selling that business and I didn’t really sell that business and evolved the room turned into a different business but this was the start and the start was all about food on the table. we just needed some money to put on the table and I didn’t know how to run a business but to it wasn’t hard in the way that it was something that I’d never done before, it was the most amazing feeling because I would go down to my basement where I had a desk and a little window you know when I was basement windows and there’s a door going out to a backyard slope and I would I go down that basement I wouldn’t come up unless I had to go to the bathroom, I was hungry or it was dark. I loved it I just loved it like immediately I just found you found something found your thing loved to do and I don’t know why really because I didn’t have this you know this and have you seen Silicon Valley?

Interviewer: I’ve seen it a few times

Dave Will: A lot of the show Silicon Valley sort of a joke in Silicon Valley it’s all about changing the world and what this technology can do to change the world and I didn’t have any perspective of how selling Web conferencing the tired old sales executives was going to change the world I didn’t care for me it was more like again we’re just having fun you know it’s picking up the phone as a cop who conversations with cool people trying to get them to buy something or someone or some fun and it was paying and some of the bills and I remember saying this for like 7-8 years that one day I might have to get a real job but I said that for several years before I finally accepted I guess this is a real job like I guess I got a job here. And so anyway no it wasn’t that there of course there are a lot of hard things in growing the business

Interviewer: How do you tell the next learn because you’re making 40grand in and how did you get it from there? people Dave Will: Overnight success now is just a completely opposite it was extremely. I mean really.

 

Interviewer: Slow it was a pivotal moment that kind of put you on a tenant to the next level did you sell it was a big deal to you sell orders or something.

Dave Will: There are a lot of transitions right, so in one of the things…

Interviewer: I’ve heard you talk about is pivoting in the business here right there you were able to pivot the business and change it over time in order make it to what you eventually sold the company.

Dave Will: So, I think that’s the important thing whether it’s a pivot or an adjustment or taking advantage of opportunities, I don’t know whatever you want to call it I like the word pivot which may be overused especially in the tech and Silicon Valley, but instead of it going to move in one direction deciding that this is not at all who we are and switching to something else that’s a real pivot but I use the pivot in more of a 45⁰  angle yet again but I have all 90⁰ or 180^0. It was constant come through so there are two things I was constantly looking at in hindsight and one was how do I make this more valuable? There’s more leader in the business I should say it was an early on where I was thinking about the value of the business but how do I make this more valuable? Was something alternately that I asked myself just about every day and there wasn’t always an obvious answer is a mindset but the thing I thought about with especially early on, is what do I need to do to make sure that I’m here tomorrow? In other words what do I need to do? What demons are chasing me? And what I’m I chasing? So, looking over my shoulder. What are the competitors doing? I’ve always. like looking at competitors I know there’s a lot of people say don’t look at your competition. I was a competitive Archer growing up and I remember telling me and I’d ask what the closest guy’s name is Duncan was always real close to me and poured on to every one though and even then I remember asking what was and was Duncan going to score my sore don’t worry about it I’m not one of the it’s guys and so ultimately I figured out found out what Duncan had in knowing that I really liked it so I like keeping an eye on the competition so. I don’t always be watching the competition figuring out you know how can I stay just ahead of them and so that led to a lot of pivots; so one point of one more than a Milestone was when we went from Web conferencing and helping organizations run successful meetings, to creating an alliance and say because of Wal-Mart didn’t become our customer, Wal-Mart was kind of a strategic partner of ours where we would reach out to their supplier base a 50,000 suppliers so supplier being people that put stuff on their shelves so of the manufacturers of paper of equipment of glasses, pencils of anything you see in this room that they sell Wal-Mart those justifiers and so Procter and Gamble and Polaroid notions prey and all of these organizations that sell stuff at Wal-Mart those became our customer base because they were the ones interested in learning more about Wal-Mart’s. Inventory management software called retailing and so, we created the on line version of something that already existed which was retail user group and again this is I’m some my partner Rick brought to the table he had experience he was working in that industry and knowledge of this so Rick brought us into this world of the creating and the digital version of this learning community All right so that concept of creating these courses on line for 50,000 suppliers.

Interviewer: Because they were having a problem utilizing the system or had they couldn’t figure it out.

Dave Will: Wal-Mart was horrible at training they did zero training they said look take the software, this is how you save money now you don’t need to buy in the aisles and dater or idea take our software and give you all the data for free, for free which is millions of dollars worth of data so Wal-Mart gives that to their suppliers as good now you have this data now to make it less expensive for us and so but nobody knew how to do that or how to manage a system so they were experts in the industry, we tapped into their knowledge put it into courses and started selling it [interesting] so then we had a couple other organizations pop up this said he would come want to create a community like that a community that we can create and sell content to so I hired a developer, contracted didn’t hire contracted developer to build a learning site very similar the one we built with retailing and then another one so we got 3-4-6months each to build these things out is incredibly slow not scalable at all yeah. And that’s when ultimately we discovered the world of associations. So, we went from consumer goods tired old sales executive we realized that that’s fine we’re doing some business and we’re growing gradually but the opportunity for us now lay in the association world and so we found associations which are these organizations of members that have thousands of members and belong to an association and they are all craving knowledge about a certain subject area so instead of building these one sites I found another organization in the space that we partnered with and ultimately merged with to creative learning management system so that with the flick of a switch instead of 6months with a flick of a switch we could take what we’re doing earlier and make it scale so now, we had a learning manager system and we got up to about 20-50customers a fairly short period of time and I’d say if there was a hockey stick.

 

It’s more a field hockey stick I think but anyway it was if it was a it was a hockey stick that’s the whole myth where we really found who we were we found niche which another real key to doing things Well it’s finding a niche and of focusing on that niche.

Interviewer: But you’re determining perseverant and you pivoted along the way and because you eventually stayed the course you eventually found your hockey stick

Dave Will: Yeah it was a relentless forward motion is Montreal I subscribe to and then you find that with a lot I mean last year I don’t do relentless for emotional and mental.

Interviewer: And that seems to be a separating point for a lot of people is that relentless forward motion is what allows them of Benchley to break through and stay the course yeah and find their you know because most Entrepreneurs like it’s not like the you know maybe some people get lucky and they do within the first or two but most people when you talk of the journey it’s you know 5-10-15 or more years where they’re having their big moment

Dave Will:  Yeah people get tired and they desire and they just give up but I think you found your passion in your purpose and you also knew that if this didn’t work you have to go back to that tired old 9-5 job part of a to do sometimes the fuels around us get a sense it was never question of giving up the leg and I don’t even think of it as giving up what I know but other always will might look at it like that but for most people I think what happens is they get to a point where it’s so tiring that they think you know I’m going to get much more personal reward of going to work for State Street or this by itself ours or this other guy, they’re going to find more reward in that than they are doing this you know I so over the course of 14years a two different partners both of which a lot of us are playing my first partner, Rick I recall I mentioned him many times he’s still a very good friend.

Interviewer: And how did you decide to buy then out and approach them is just it when its course and they were not interested anymore?

Dave Will: So each one so with Rick and it got to a point where it was no longer just battling trying something you know with this $40,000 bringing in we were 2-3years into it finding some traction, we got to work read that you know if we’re going to go forward with this if this is something that we’re going to pursue got be all, we’ve got it we’ve really got to be all in and so I asked him to join me I actually quite the opposite of what happened I asked him to come and be all in with me or not, one or the other it was a goner let’s not meet him saying what we’ve got to be in or out and he understandably had a great career and he’s a little bit older than me and had you know he’s looking at his pension, he’s thinking about his future, he’s making good money, is going to steady job he’s enjoying it this is a hobby for him and so he said you know I think I think I’m out, I got a daughter going to college so we came up with a result phrase a bottom out for in hindsight I laughed at that time it was the writing on the bottom up for $17,000 in the laptop so I let him keep the laptop which I think he gave to his daughter going to college and the $17,000 to help pay for the first year of college and he was happy and I was happy so now on the sole owner of the business at the time. Then I mentioned that we found another company and did that company that that point.

 

We’re both about the same size at the time and We had an advisor that we trusted value to businesses and because mine was valued a little more profitable, I got the majority of the shares so which is relevant to the story so I got I think I was at 68% my partner was at 32% and so three or four years in to that relationship. He came to me at a conference I remember we were in the middle of a conference in D.C. for associations and he came to me really surprised me when he says you know you know what I’m tired and I have to be honest, I’m not a majority shareholder, we’re an equal shareholder and I just want to do some fun for me again. So, he was he stopped having fun for you so again he didn’t quit he what happened is he just found a greater return doing something different so and maybe some antics, I don’t consider that quitting I consider that a personal feeling right? So, he decided to leave it and we found a mutually agreeable value for his shares and I bought him out no. I didn’t expect I had every intent of selling the business at some point as that he neither one of us expected it to happen that soon but I created a 5year plan from that point with my executive team and said Here’s where it when I say I created it, we had some help from the outside it was a phenomenal process, but we created this vision, it’s actually a 3year vision without the Prometheans Yes you get Promethean. So, it’s called and we used a gentleman named Kyle HoWill and what is that probably to only you know he’s with the core group by the way so it’s and he was incredibly helpful. So, back to second so we created a 3year vision a very, very clear vision of where we wanted to be as an executive team and then we thought you know when we hit that goal we hit that room where there were meant that the vision were going to essentially open our minds the thought of selling to what that meant I didn’t really know yet but we’re going to prepare the business for sale and then we’re going to sell so that was very, very I was very transparent with my executive team about the selling part I don’t think I was as transparent with their employees about our goal to sell. Because there’s a lot of options that could have presented price of you know at that point but it happened much quicker so we ended up selling 2years into that 3years vision so instead of 5years as 2years later?

Interviewer: Do you think that having that vision held Do you sell the business better still

Dave Will: Oh my God! Absolutely!

Interviewer: Because I was I keep piece of it was actually having a crystal clear picture of where he want to go and then what happened is you sped up the process because everyone was aligned to where you were headed together and wanted to so…

Dave Will: So, at this point, I’m all in a culture like culture to me is incredibly important part of

Interviewer: what does culture mean to you?

Dave Will: Because people do say that and it was so culture I am a still isn’t buying it Brian Helegan and who is the founder of spot one of the two founders of the Hub Spot and Spot is a marketing automation and platform, they’ve gone in the past 12-13, years 12years I think to a $2b valuation, they’re public company so he’s done a great job one of his mentors described culture as the way people make decisions when you’re not in the room. So, culture is this guiding force that helps people behave the way they should…

Interviewer: And how did you create that guiding force? What concrete steps did you take in order?

Dave Will: So there are 3-elements to creating a great culture OK 1. is good motivation, finding the right motivation for your people and it’s actually pretty generic formula I think, second thing is trust that’s really the really hard. Because you’re bringing people in you don’t know yes and now you’re trust them. That’s hard and then you have a cadence and cadence is a word I like to use because I think cadence leads to habit. Habit is good or bad but cadence is something you actually can do to maintain a good habits so that’s why I like the word cadence better than forming habits or patterns. So looking at motivation if you can create an environment a culture I’m not talking about ads. So, I’m not talking about hats with the prop you a logo, I’m not talking about pens and pads actually there’s a let me put it put a little interlude in you’re. One of the few people that ever left my company. And I say that purposely and sounds a little arrogant but not a lot of people after company are very, very, low attrition but one of the people that left, left because she wasn’t injure a career she was into making money so she could pay for school. Her passion and I know this because she came to me and said I’m struggling I like it here, I love the people I work with. But I need to make more money and so while it’s going on because I need to pay for school that’s where I want to go and she said and can my but the last company work for inviting me back and pay me more my ass and encourages you. Because you’re not here to form a career and I here create a great life for yourself you’re here to make money to pay for college go take that career, bank it and go to college as quickly as you can. And so she called me back 2-3months later she sent me an e-mail saying so can you tell me where you get your hats and pens and belts and bags and all that stuff because I’m trying to teach my Bosses how to create great culture. And I think you know where to start it was so I wrote her back in this email saying, I can give you those links and those phone numbers but the perks that you’re talking about are not going to create the great culture. So, going back to motivation will creates motivation is not the extrinsic stuff right sedan Pink has its great video on what motivates people and I subscribe to a lot of what he says for me motivation often is confused with money. So, how much money do we need today to learn from the people or are carrots even a trip somewhere you know giving people a trip or bonuses and they’re nice, they really are nice but science proves it History shows that it doesn’t dry it’s about what happens inside it doesn’t drive greater it doesn’t drive her to success so there are greater results. So, it’s about the intrinsic

Interviewer: So how did you create that intrinsic?

Dave Will: Purpose and values so vision purpose and values are what drive people far more than money, people need money right but vision purpose and values are what drive people to come to work you’ve done it sure a nerd I think I hope I said his name right is the Patagonia founder is great quote this book ‘Let my people go surfing’ so in the 60s in the early 70s it was building Patagonia and they made parts and pieces for climbing gear that’s all they made. He actually fell into clothing. He didn’t love it but he fell into clothing because that’s when paid the bills so you will climb more than his book called ‘Let my people go surfing’. And he described as they were finding success, as they were getting bigger he said and I knew we needed to get bigger and I knew we needed to grow but he still knew how important it was for his people to come to work on the walls their feet climbing the stairs two at a time. So that the passion that’s the motivation how do you get people coming to work on the balls of the feet climbing the stairs two at a time and I get chills every time I said I just got this little chill saying it but. To me, that’s what drives that’s a big part of what drives a growing a business and so, the way to get people to come to work on the balls of their feet climbing the stairs two at a time, is from the inside and if you can create a vision and that’s where Prometheus for us came into play Prometheus was just the name of the process that Kyle HoWill and from the courtroom brought us through and I can describe that in a little bit of detail

Interviewer: Put links in the shell Nels for people?

Dave Will: So, they can figure out and take a look at sort of the core group is I think probably a quarter of dot com I get we can figure that out but. But Promethean is what helps create is crystal clear vision crystal clear with 12descriptors is what they call it all away from yes finance you want to talk about your financial goals, that is far from the vision. Too many people say oh we want to get to a 100m or we want to get to 50m, we want to get to 20m in profit. That’s cool that’s a great metric [Yeah] but it’s not going to drive people from the inside. So it’s all the finance is a part of it there’s there is the corporate citizenship there is the [flambé 40:01] to be there’s the outsider perspective the insider perspective there’s twelve of these elements that define what you really looks like now in the 3years and now and then how you get there so it’s very selective tractions similar Rockefeller happens you know so there’s all these methodology is that hell yes see something and then figure out a path to get there so vision and then whatever when you use a school you know whether it’s a core group or traction or Rockefeller have it doesn’t matter really as we found great success with Kyle. The second piece of that is good is the mission. So, this is where purpose comes into play, I actually prefer the word purpose but purpose is the thing that drives you it’s the reason you get up in the morning and that that comes for stories that comes from taking what you do and how it’s actually changing people’s lives because everything we do, every business we’re in the matter what it is you are improving people’s lives or else there’s no value to what you’re going and there’s probably some exceptions to that rule, but for the most part even when I mention Wal-Mart earlier a lot of people love to hate Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is actually reducing the average income of the average spend the groceries by a couple thousand dollars in like $1,800-$22,000 per year for the grocery household income you know how important that is to middle America? to save $2000 a year on groceries that’s a huge impact not only that but they’re doing it when there’s a major World events like a hurricane they are there on the scene with us and they actually know what supplies their stores run out of first so boom they give the Red Cross the water, the toilet paper, the Band-Aids whatever people need in a major issue there on it far before any nonprofit or any governmental organization. So, my little soapbox and people like the bash Wal-Mart as I bring those two things up. So, having said that, every organization has a purpose and it’s our job as leaders of those organizations to be that they get funding.

Interviewer: Is that a statement that you gave people?

Dave Will: Yeah we did it was it wasn’t as important as the stories that got it where did it to the story of service statement if you just sicker of a statement it kind of sounds of bullshit it sounds like.

Interviewer: You’ve got the stories behind it to may have a little bit about that what about the values because away

Dave Will: And then there’s the values piece of it, which again alone can seem like bullshit it’s if to live it the Valley has to live in not just lives you need to constantly talk about it and to constantly bring it into your stories, you need to iterate and a great passion for me, the values didn’t come from me the values came from our employees we had a process probably not worth going into here we had a process how we developed and came up with our values by looking at the employees that epitomized our company and by describing them we created who we all wanted to be to.

Interviewer: How did you do the trust part of it quick?

Dave Will: So the trust piece of it is not about I trust you to pay me back for that lunch I bought you the other day, the trust piece of it comes from as a leader or a manager for that part, it comes from trusting that you’re going to deliver on something that I asked you to deliver on that may be more specific. Oftentimes you give somebody an important job the more important it is, the more we look over their shoulder the more important is more likely we are actually kind of take what they’re doing now we grab the pen for a second and we’re just marking things up when we get to pen back but then we take the pen and the paper an hour now they’re watching us do it and oftentimes we want to get involved in the most important piece of our business; trust comes from you getting things to people that are really important to the business and letting them run with it got and here’s the key and this is the really hard part is how do you let them run with it even though they’re doing it differently than you would do it? The only rule I had for myself and our executive team was, we can only interfere with people’s processes and their methodologies and what they’re doing if it’s going to hurt the business it’s not going to hurt business just because we think we can do a better. That’s not for us to mess with we need to trust that people are taking where they need to take another doesn’t mean you don’t help people improve, doesn’t mean you don’t coach your employees, what it means you trust your employees to do the job.

Interviewer: OK I want to talk about exiting the business how did you ultimately And how would you advise someone to figure out how do you exit of business Well, that’s a question people often says will wonder why sell or a like how do you come to that conclusion, or how would you advise someone else to do it?

Dave Will: Often times, I don’t tell you about my experience as opposed to telling other people how to how they should do it because I don’t know there’s so many scenarios and how people want to exit business whether you’re retiring or whether it’s a family business or whether you’re sick or whether the business is failing or whether the business is skyrocketing it’s just so many different scenarios I can only tell you about my OK My experience was one where I belong to a space where a great technology company that was doing Well it wasn’t it wasn’t like off the charts making hundreds of millions

Interviewer: I heard you say that you saw you saw the future and you figure at that point there wasn’t as much upside or you didn’t see it happening and growing at the rate that it had been was it?

Dave Will: No I actually on the contrary I think our business was it was really healthy like we could have taken our business and great heights I believe OK In fact we made a bunch of transitions where we went from being a services oriented business to assess software into business we became there was that we went from being project oriented revenue to being a recurring revenue, monthly recurring revenue yes we had it long term contracts as Well as a long term monthly recurring revenue contracts of them boy with our customers. So, we were creating We had recurring standardized processes, we’re incredibly scalable at this point we could double the business with very few additional people so we had to really, really we had a bright future very, very bright future for the business which actually put in a great position is health for yes so if so what happened is the industry we were in was becoming noticed by many. So, now private equity is coming into our space and I noticed they bought up a couple companies not a lot but there’s a little activity going on in their space and so what’s happening is a lot of the bigger entities are seeing an opportunity in a small community associations to get a niche if you have a niche in a specific area, you’re going to be strong in that area, we weren’t trying to be everything to corporations we were focused on associations so when money was coming in, I started to get more and more phone calls where I was getting phone calls every now and then from people just fishing or businesses. Them but I started get some phone calls a problem private equity firms that knew the businesses in our space and truly knew us which surprised me because most of the phone calls claimed to know you know we’ve been watching we’ve seen your site. But these guys actually knew the businesses and talked to the businesses in our space so I knew there was something going on so I entertain some conversations with multiple private equity firms in a certain point with a couple offers for business. Now, the offers it became very clear that we had good software but what attracted the private equity firms was the culture of our businesses, the way our customers talked about us and it was the way the reputation. The repetition of mark which becomes the big part comes from the culture of the organization. So, they confronted me now at this point I had the choice of finding a broker. Management of my own or working with a Lawyer we had I had a lawyer that I worked with for quite some time and I had a great deal of faith in Him I still do he saw me with Prop fuel or new company as Well. And so he became interested in buys or I had debated bringing in a broker to help her divestment banker to help navigate and help us benefit from the deal more but there was no point where I felt I wasn’t getting what we needed. So, I turned down the first couple offers because they simply weren’t what I felt they didn’t match the future of the business like I said business doing awesome, we’re doing great so but they kept coming back with more for sort of a certain point there’s a there becomes this point where the amount of money you’re being offered and the opportunity for your people and the opportunity for the entity the organization is of far better under that management than it is under our management [got it] so money was a piece of it a big piece of it don’t get me wrong but a requirement was a bright future for our customers, a bright future for plays and therefore a bright future for the business. So that’s how I made the decision and then you sold the business and I want to get the story quickly give few minutes remaining is that

Interviewer: you sold the business and you know how did you get to Prop fuel from there?

Dave Will: Yes I saw this I worked for the company the quire and company for a period of time and I think I got to a point were both I was grateful to step out and I think the company was probably grateful to have me step out. Because there are bumps along the way you know you know no matter how good a cultural fit it is it’s never the same culture as the one you’ve created in your organization that’s the difficult. I had no problem by the way selling the business, I hear from a lot of people it’s a sad thing, it’s a personal thing for me it was like dropping a kid off a college; you know there’s some sentiment it’s not like I’m a robot some sentiment but it’s like this joy of seeing yourself Yes a gated thrive so that’s how I felt about it so then. We were talking of this earlier on when we were setting up for this but then I left the company and I just started saying yes to everything because I thought I’m free, like I can do everything I’ve always wanted to do the first thing I did as I watched ‘The Godfather’ which is a movie I’ve never seen and that’s a long movie three parts lots of lots of downtime on the couch took me like three weeks to watch those 10hours. That was the first thing I did. I’m still working on reading and Rand Atlas Shrugged there was nothing I want to do after I sell the business. And I want to clean my basement, I haven’t got today yet either but I said yes to everything somehow I got really busy. What I was going to like I don’t know I didn’t have that purpose and I was no longer focused on that one major goal and so I just come running around like a chicken with my head cut off and I was OK with it, I wasn’t sad, I wasn’t depressed or anything.

Interviewer: But you didn’t have that one thing like you had in the past so you needed to have that one thing that’s yeah again so how did you come up with this?

Dave Will: So I think there were a bunch of ideas you know I went from I surely never had interest in writing. Book and a lot of people talk about writing a book another but people talk about consulting or coaching, didn’t want to do that either I thought about the incubator idea of creating fun is there a missionary thought about doing it with kids in high school and I thought about doing it with kid in college and then I thought about maybe just organizing a collection of the investors of creating a fund and again none of those got me as excited as when I’d be sitting down with a buddy over a beer or talking about an idea and bringing it to market. So, it can concluded that I needed to grow another business for two reasons 1.It will get it’s all got me turned on number one, number two it’s a cow wanted to prove myself that the first one wasn’t a hoax that it wasn’t I wasn’t clear yet I wanted to I still need to prove myself that that the first sell wasn’t just an accident so I struggle in calling myself a serial Entrepreneur, I don’t know I don’t use that term to describe myself oftentimes because I have yet to become a serial entrepreneur. So, ultimately after a lot of different ideas, I’m mean tons of ideas and how it rate them down in Evernote and I so I have lists in Evernote business ideas and I take what I’m playing with it for a month and then and either most of them just some point you know wall every business hits a wall with the idea and some of them I feel like what on earth there are and some I could which is Prop Fuel came from this concept of creating a great culture and it’s what we did really Will at my last company and what it really enjoyed a glass company was the culture piece of it one of the things we did in that culture piece to true so that I could understand what was going on the heads of my employees and so that I could get that feedback from them on a regular routine and cadence this is one of the things that having the builds a great culture is creating cadence reaching out to my employees giving him an opportunity pat each other on the back No1,is recognition a number two. Nothing to give me some feedback on what’s going on out there in the field what’s going on we’re talking your customers so we have this weekly survey for lack of a better word that went out for a customer to or to our employees asking them those two things are you happy in your job? And what I mean generally opening the door to what can we do that support you better job, number two is who do you want to give you give recognition to and who do you want to nominate with this feature the leaders employee of the week and so who do you want to nominate for that role, so every week in our company meeting we take the last 5minutes we go through the stuff if somebody wanted a what he acts or size ball to say we buy an exercise ball on Amazon, so we want to stand up that’s the kind of stand-up desk and those are the kind of things people wanted to make their job get better. So, this is the feedback and this is the recognition that drove the impetus behind Prop Fuel So now think about events quote people coming to work on the balls of the feet climbing Yes there’s to a time think about this other stat I learned that only 13% of the people in the world love their job. 13% ,the 87% B.S. before I got fired definitely and as soon as I figured out what I really enjoyed and became part of the thirteen percent I wanted people working for me to be a part of that 13% of people that love their job in the first step to doing that second step first step is, creating a vision purpose and values the second step is allowing them a chance to reward and recognize each other Intrinsically and then the other part is figuring out what’s going on their heads what are they doing? So, that we do at  Prop Fuel you’ll prop bills a super inexpensive way for Entrepreneurs of small businesses ten to one hundred employees to understand what’s going on in in the heads of their employees and give them a chance on weekly basis to get recognition because it’s a great super, super, simple easy to use where and it’s like fifty or one hundred bucks that thing on the site you think that’s awesome yeah it’s cool

Interviewer: so where can people find more about you and the business?

Dave Will: www.propfuel.com P-R-O P-F-U-E-L, propfuel.com You can find me at dave@propfuel.com That’s probably the best way to reach me is the mail.

Interviewer: OK Beautiful Will thanks a lot for joining us on another show of executive breakthroughs it’s been fantastic having Dave your show this year with his all his insights and things that happen in all of a lot of things in the show notes and probably some fun surprises as Well so watch out for that fun surprises, thanks for having me on the show.

[End of Transcript]

[Start of Transcript]

Jason: Welcome to another episode of Executive breakthroughs, I have a fantastic guest for you today and you’re going to learn a lot of insights and wonderful information, Stefania who is the CEO of eZcater and it’s a very interesting path she has traveled on and so I want to start off from the beginning because one of the quotes or things I just heard you talk about is that growing up you grew up in a difficult family. I just want to find out some of the people back around where people came from because easier to understand their journey. So, what does that mean, how was growing up?

Stefania: I grew up in a family that sent two messages at the same time. I guess everybody gets conflicting messages one of them is, you’re a citizen of the world there’s a lot of interesting stuff out there you should be out there figuring out how to learn as much as you can do as much as you can. The other message was but you don’t deserve to live and that combination was kind of confusing for me; took me a long time to realize the drag effect that you don’t deserve to live message which of course was never explicitly said had on me.

Jason: How did that play out though because I’m trying to get people like what things happen that told you that…

Stefania: It takes a lot to explain to one game from basically parents who, it was a strong message to turns out there were four us as adults, there was a moment where we all realized that you know we pretty much all came away with that message which is not something that my parents woke up everyday wanting to convey but that right what we got.

Jason: Was a challenging time a girl child with any other people influence you or advance on your path forward?

Stefania: I tell you the biggest thing was when I got out of the house and this exactly exemplifies the conflict. My mother who was a difficult woman, my mother is the one who figured out that I needed to go to MIT and she got me and I mean she arranged it that I applied and I got in and she arranged that I applied I got in and then, the minute I got there and was free of my family the same family that had propelled me into MIT, that was when I really started to become a healthier person from there on.

Jason: It forced on around their own letterhead my hands

Stefania: Got out from under there and flourished on my own.

Jason: What about MIT sort of helped you?

Stefania: MIT teaches everybody how to solve problems, like really teaches you how to use your brain and how to use everything you know and everything you can interpolate, extrapolate from what you know to solve problems. It also has an attitude which I would never have known articulated this way but now, this is a phrase we use here at the it has that attitude of well just try it, I don’t know what not sure if it would work but try it and the just try it.

Jason: Implemented rather than people a lot of times if you notice talking about I just I don’t know start believing it or a yeah and pivot as you go along.

Stefania: I think Engineers have courage because there’s this sense of like I can fix this, I can make something, I can build something, and so that strength and courage permeates MIT.

Jason: So, solving problems in Engineering technical is part of who you are as your [DNA] you figured out that when you’re in MIT or you know that ahead of time where do you figure that along the path?

Stefania: I would give my parents credit for having figured out that I was the kid do type who thought you should be able to make something and who had a I had a certain science and math bent got it and we grew up in Newton which is a suburb or you know not far from Cambridge and MIT My father went to the MIT of Switzerland, my father’s Italian but he went to the MIT of Switzerland and I was the kid most like him and so I think that was the natural path.

Jason: So, how do you find yourself in this entrepreneurial path like where did you come to get your hitch, and where you know your start.

Stefania: I think that entrepreneurs come in three camps. I think there’s the ones who want to prove something to a parent usually to their father [yes]. There’s the ones who need to prove to themselves it’s a smaller group than the first group that needs to prove something to the parents and then there’s another group which is pretty healthy sized which is, I am so sick of working for other people. I just want to quote work for myself. You work for your customers, you work for your Employees, you work for your investors but it feels somehow like you’re working for yourself and I was one of those. It took me 20years of working for other people’s companies before I finally was able to launch.

Jason: What was the event that pushed you finally down this path?

Stefania: so, I am an operating Exec. I’m not the idea person, I’m the one that idea people turn to say can you build this company? I have an idea for a product or you build a company around it. And in 1997, I was approached by or late 1996 I guess, I was approached by IDEA people who didn’t want to quit their day jobs before one of this idea to see the light of day and so they asked me if I would do that and I was in a job where I was kind of sick of it was time for change anyway and I said Sure; why don’t I give it a shot.

Jason: So, what company was that?

Stefania: It’s a company called Insight Marketing Technology, OK We sold that one for 14X. Some investors did better than 14X.

Jason: And it was in a very short period of time right a couple of years?

Stefania: Well 1997, I think we sold it around 2000-2001, I don’t remember, it was that one of them was during the Internet bubble right was a lot of fun people who say the Internet bubble was the era of silliness and we all should have done that they’re like, we had a great time you know great time we’ve all had a great time all of us.

Jason: That was pretty incredible that you got the company interjectory one when you went in there and what is it that you needed to do that wasn’t being done at the time?

Stefania: This was in the early days of the Web; the Web was still the wild west. We helped companies who were just moving into e-commerce create virtual sales people, software that made you feel like you were being helped in a situation and now yes to the best in-store situation you know you walk into a store and you find a salesperson actually knows this is doing it is dispassionate in their advice to you and gives you real help in making your decision, we created a virtual version of that and it made everybody happy, we tripled conversion rates, it was a big deal. It’s a great company I’m working right now technology so familiar with Con us on well yeah then we go above a so yes I have something that is there and then count it in the West Coast.

Jason: So, we wanted this whole process and then you were successful at it and then you started the next venture which was something different so what did you do?

Stefania: Well you ruined once you’ve done, that it’s hard to go back and work for some big company again. I love big companies a lot of strength, a lot of resources in big companies but I found that I like the smaller scenario where what you do has such a huge impact. Your mistakes have much bigger effect; yet your success is so much bigger make the things you did right have much bigger effect. So, I bounced around a bit helping other people I am an operate Exec right, so I was helping other people run their companies or take their companies to the next level people who were plateaued and needed to go to the next level, people who were who weren’t sure how far whether their idea had legs I was helping them and then. In 2004, I got involved with the company that was the precursor of this one. Briscoe Rogers is my co-founder here was the founder of the previous company. He’s an idea guy and he was looking for an operating Exec to help him take his idea forward and honestly at first, I didn’t want to work for the company at first I thought it oh sure problems that are interesting I just don’t know but he kept suggesting people for Him to hire and he kept hiring them and then I thought Oh my friends work there may be better just go work there and so I went.

Jason: Was this preferred time?

Stefania: Preferred time and so he wanted to do for time help pharmaceutical company sales reps get in front of the Doctors. But that’s a very broken dynamic and yes it is happy with the way that it works and we tried to inject sanity and mutual respect into that process and we got to where a third of all the pharm reps in the country were using us for at least some of their visits to some of the doctors that was really cool but still…

Jason: What was the resistance? People paying?

Stefania: The resistance was the pharma firms were kind of torn like well you’re either helping me or you’re getting between me and my customer I can’t decide and we figured out. The cases where people adopted us and felt that was really valuable that worked extremely well but there was the resistance like well are you actually going to slow down my excess or are you helping my access and our investors were at a different point in their funds where they ran out of interest, they didn’t have any more cash to put into the company. So, we shut the thing down. that was pretty discouraging

Jason: But what lesson that you were a man I want to get done how you got to where you are right now what lesson what lesson did you learn at that point you know one number one business that you sold successfully No I didn’t and as well what things did you take away from both experiences moving forward that you were

Stefania: Persistence is important that luck here is part of the game. You’ve got to just get back up pick yourself up and keep going you can’t assume because one of them works and the next one didn’t you can assume because one of the work the next one is going to work and you can’t assume because [a lot of people do] I know but you also can’t assume that because one of them didn’t work the next one is not going to work. You just think, I’m playing the numbers game. My life is my portfolio and I just kind of got to keep trying, keep trying, to keep trying. what in life have I done where every single time I touched some process it worked, oh it’s the same thing. I had an investor the day that we shut that company Preferred Time down. I called all the investors and it was no surprise to them all the employees all the investors knew that it was a very good likelihood that indeed we would have to shut this thing down and when the white knight prospect of investors didn’t materialize, we close that down pretty quickly. And I called the investors to say look I’m sorry I lost your money, this is the way the game is played I’m thinking this but still I felt terrible and the 4th or 5th guy whom I called said That’s OK Stefania, I’ll do whatever you and Briscoe are going to do next. I’ll invest in whatever you want.

Jason: But why do you think you do next he said that I saw you mention that I said

Stefania: Absolutely blew my mind and I remember still very clearly I remember feeling this weight come off my shoulders and he said to me well I was silent because I was feeling the weight, he said What is that next thing by the way and that’s when I realized people really invest in people more than the idea that I was heard people say an A-idea with a B-team is not as good as B-idea with an A-team that the team is what matters and clearly we were being respected for what we had accomplished even though the company was not successful.

Jason: The relationships also that you built with all of these people that want a better

Stefania: I think relationship mattered but I think it was more the way they all served how we performed OK. it’s not like we were best buddies and that they would have sold their first bond to fund our next come, [Got it] was more that they saw that we had performed as well as well as we could and how we had before was pretty reasonable. and the message that I took away from that was at that moment he reminded me of failure is the deal for an entrepreneur it’s OK failure is part of the game. I had to sort of know that intellectually but when he said it in those words emotionally I resurrected that concept of oh yeah, it’s OK it’s OK when it happened and I moved all had to be the joke but it’s actually not a joke is that you shut those things down the Thursday like I got drunk Oh we can do it on Monday we launch this thing. You know take yourself back up.

Jason: What do you think if you would have gotten away with it [part of the process] and you made peace with what had happened recently. You know I was reading somewhere that the arc of being a successful entrepreneur or is really more about knowing when to kill ideas and move forward and I’m wondering if you would have had that white knight come in would you have can would have continued? Would  you have continued on or not I mean I know, that a hypothetic question.

Stefania: It’s I’m a little cut and [yeah[ I mean that certainly was what we’re looking for the white knight for we certainly thought the business had legs in hindsight I see that it was a tough business, a really tough business Iine a way much tougher than the one we’re in now the one we’re in now, The difference is that people were clamoring for the kind of assistance [that Easy cater] provides in the in preferred time, it’s like almost every other business I’ve ever worked for, there was a need but people aren’t clamoring for a solution to that need.

Jason: There’s not massive pain.  

Stefania: There’s pain but it wasn’t such a strong pain there were all desperate for it and for a solution to that pain and so many companies are built quite successfully convincing us that the pain is really great and that we should buy this.

Jason: Yes, and instead of solving that the pain is there now because you found that right idea you found in the business you have now in the preferred time.

Stefania: We had literally thousands of people attempting to place orders, literally thousands of times we were asked, can you make the food appear for this business meeting, and we thought two things, we thought what we can bootstrap this thing and it’s a real need. So, let’s figure out how to do that. And so, we did we launched the thing again out of our house.

Jason: And you did in our Monday. So, I mean how did you how did most people take their wounds for a little while I know you’ve had that conversation the sense a very was that really just for you was that just a simple, getting the weight off your back?

Stefania: I think when you went over there a bit was that was it continue to work OK but also admittedly it was the beginning of summer and with that summer, we worked but we didn’t work balls to the wall 24hours a day over we did I know we were waiting to try to released software we’re waiting to try to have all the pieces lined up and I would say I work probably 30hours a week that first summer OK so I did take some time to just kick back a bit

Jason: And you had investors lined up or people that would give you money?

Stefania: Yes, we did but it was very small money you know Briscoe and I each put in, I don’t know I think together we put in $25,000 or something $22,000 and we raised $100,000 more from people like this investor who said I’ll put in money, we didn’t pay ourselves the first year or more of their surroundings model really bootstrapped. I remember the discussion about when winter came and we were still working in my house I said you know if I went to a job I would heat the house during the day I have a timer thermostat to be charged the company the heat bill and we decided that yes I could charge the company in the heat bill that was. For the part of the week for 40hours of the week that Monday-Friday, 9-5, If yes so we were back kind of careful about using the money we didn’t feather our own mess with it at all.

Jason: there are two schools of thoughts and then a bootstrapping it. And then there are people that are taking L-side capital, like how do you view that starting a company from infancy point of view because people probably listen to this and you know we have successful people.

Stefania: Your idea OK you know if you’re building a drug you need huge amount of money and bootstrapping is not an option. If you’re building a service, if you’re building a consulting service, if you’re doing software for hire, you probably can bootstrap that and then all the other ideas are somewhere in between on that spectrum. I think that it’s wise to not have a lot of money early on because it makes you be really creative and clever about what you’re about how to accomplish what you need to accomplish and it makes you be pretty ruthless about what’s important to work on first and I think that gives you a sharpened focus. So, I think never not having too much money is a good move at every stage of the company, and we’ve always raised only as much money as we knew what to do with we think that’s a wise discipline. I think also. Frugality breeds creativity, resourcefulness and I think that’s helpful I think it helps to be a little scared all the time I. Think that’s sharpens of the senses, there is a motivator.

Jason: Fear is a motivator.

Stefania: You do if you’re too much like everything else if you sue much then you end up unable to get out don’t get overwhelmed and you can’t really try anything in hindsight, I think we bootstrap for about a year too long. I think we were we could have brought in bigger money earlier but boy that day we brought in the big money, I mean to us at first $1million dollars raised it once was big money and then we raised $2-million at once it seemed like incredible and then $3million at once and then we raised $13million at once and while we could try a lot of experiments at that point and going fast, which is what with enough money you can move faster which was Hope money letting you move fast gives you a quicker learning cycles because that’s all this is about yes constantly learning and learning and learning and doing incorporate learning said moving quickly money helps you do that move when you’re ready when your ready money helps you move faster to get to be ready and yeah you can just everything the way in the beginning and people in place and of people that you can bring in more good people.

Jason: So, what did you want about hiring people because I’m interested in you know on Company Number three how has your hiring process or philosophy changed over time and what do you learn that’s kind of the secret source to finding the right people.

Stefania: so, I have over time I think I’ve developed my gut pretty well I think the big change is I try to listen one hundred percent to my God. To the collective guts of all the people who interview, I do not do the interviewing alone I don’t interview every day I don’t if I don’t even interview all the employees anymore I have people who have trained their guts that we have a group consensus and if someone if anybody in the group says I think so this is not like somebody that makes me go yes this is our kind of person and they have the skills, then we don’t hire you’ve got to have somebody in the group is really negative on an individual if the majority opinion is that there’s very strong Yeah this look oh my God this is a really a real keeper that we don’t hire and we’ve hired pretty well.

Jason: So how do you want to trust your gut because a lot of people get different and basically look at the data you know look I’m sorry they’re right people want that right also the godson right so how did you measure it was there any is there anything that happened that got this moment that you reflect on that sort of taught you to trust in yourself more.

Stefania: One of the great advantages of growing up in a difficult situation is that you learn to read the tea leaves you learn to be very sensitive to nuance to understand what’s really motivating this person because in my family if you didn’t figure out what was motivating your parents. You were going to die, not literally but it certainly felt like it yeah and so you learned to be pretty attuned to and to nuances of situations of human beings. Harnessing that has been very helpful you harness to understand how you couldn’t treat a customer really well, you harness that to figure out how you can be hire people well, so see reading people as a life skill. Everybody can develop it but if you develop it under fear of death when you were little you probably developed greater probably got a faster you know I need to tell you that out and just look at your time.

Jason: so, what do you want also a building culture, like what does culture mean to you because I feel like that’s a lot of work for some people but I’m seeing a lot more and a lot more people are really putting a lot more emphasis on that now building process and in the D.N.A. of the company culture matters hugely I mean everybody has one I remember just recently I was at an event where somebody said you know we don’t think we had a culture we went offline for a couple days and we decided what our culture would be I said well you actually have a culture, you always have a culture you could go outside and decide what you want to change it to if you don’t like the one you have but you’ve got a culture ours is pretty intentional from the start. I have cared about and Briscoe my co-founder has completely supported has agreed with he cares about the same things I cared about transparency about. Try it you know fearlessness let’s just try stuff and honestly he’s more Felix than I to his He’s amazing you guys like how hard can it be and I’ve been through the more cautious voice and I think the combination has helped us and I’ve become more and more brave over time following this guy around the bike he still lived let’s keep trying more things so transparency, fearlessness and Being insanely helpful to each other to our customers, to our caterers were two sided marketplace and so we need to support both sides equally well you can’t be emotionally available to be that supportive to your customers and your business partners if you’re not being well treated so being insanely helpful to our employees and each of us to each other and I to each of them that’s of course tenet of our culture too. I didn’t wake up one morning saying these are the three things I just that’s the way I behave and every year as we brought in more employees we realized we had to articulate more clearly that these are the behaviors and we’ve kind of distilled it to those three. Because that’s genuinely who we are and because it helps to say it out loud.

Jason: Got it, what 3-things?

Stefania: Transparency, fearlessness insane helpfulness [OK[ if you put those together, you know insane helpfulness is another phrase for just really nice to each other. In a proactive in a thoughtful way, fearlessness is try it, try it and track it. Because if you track it then you figure out whether that was a good thing to try whether time to change it pivot just do more of it and tracking it also improves the sense of psychological safety, it is my idea, I don’t play the founder card very often it isn’t that I yell loudly it’s that the data said this was a good idea of the data said this was not a good idea and that doesn’t matter whose idea was let’s keep going to do something else. So, transparency fearlessness with data to back it up and, it was my third one here there’s transparency, fearlessness and helpfulness yeah, those are my three.

Jason: So, the other part about you meeting you in just wondering about your past, I can see that probably caring and empathy is a huge piece of who you are and so I wonder how that’s reflected in the culture because I find it so I can psychological safety that’s a key component of making that…

Stefania: It’s true, I heard of it so I think I can people I like people who think coming out of a difficult time I know you can’t tell you that you can’t kill things that people are born with I was born industrious, I was born liking people, I was born optimistic and you can’t kill that in people. I don’t think you could borrow it but you can’t eventually it comes back and I actually come back out I’ve spent my whole life trying to become more and more myself I think we’re all on a journey to being ourselves Yes and it turns out myself is industrious and caring and genuinely people and optimistic so everybody who works here. If the people who are successful here are people who are like that.

Jason: Everyone is also right themselves out there somewhere they don’t are they are they don’t want to join you can join every C.E.O. has their own their own culture, has their own personal style, their own personal sense and you either match with that or not. I remember a long time ago, the first time I inherited a group I realized, wow it’s a very good manager who could manage a group and Harrah’s as opposed to a group that they’ve built that have selected Yes and that they have selected for themselves so that’s a real skill.

Jason: So how do you know working with a co-founder because I know you’ve got a very close relationship how do you resolve conflicts with a lot of people who start a business together one of the things that implode them is the people that found the business end up either buying one or out or they just can’t work gather and the business sinks I know

Stefania: My job is that the company’s founder on the rocks of the founders are going with each other yes. We’ve been, we’ve done really well we are this is the third year we’ve been on together actually. I got involved he is the idea guy had helped found a company with a different co-founder and they were running into some trouble and they and one of their investors said you need to upgrade here I’m a little further along in my career the Briscoe was not that much further but further and so, I came in and tried to help with that one we didn’t manage to succeed in saving that company but we discovered that we have complimentary skill sets and we love the same values. We have different angles, and we solve the same problems from different angles and they get their complimentary we have nothing to do with each other outside of work and we joke about it if we ever talk politics or get into trouble but it turns out. I’ve known the guy longer than I’ve known my husband I mean yes, I’m on my second husband so I’ve known him longer than know my husband he’s known me longer than he’s known his wife. We are the lucky combination of sufficiently different that you have two brains working on things and sufficiently the same. That we don’t get into fatal fights, we’ve certainly had disagreements but we’re both Engineers we both go back to the data and the data has resulted a lot of issues it was a great day when we had enough volume going through the system that we could just test it we didn’t have to argue about like should the button be blue or should it be red and we could just test it and the market was said one of them was a better color and the breadth of the best thing was neither Briscoe or I could remember was the blue button your idea or bad idea; because neither of us cares either of us hold quite so easy go in as even you go to drain checking a good yeah we’re both pretty separated from our egos.

Jason: So, what do you think makes a great leader from a good leader where you think separates out as you look at yourself and other people I mean what is it that you would hold out there as well as a cleaner ships’ the key for getting this thing where you want to go yeah.

Stefania: I think there are two things I would say matter and that’s probably a fifty but I’ll pick two one is, leadership is being able to stand back and see the bigger picture, see I always use this phrase with my people I say look pull the lens back, now as your become a more senior manager pull the lens farther back the more senior you are the more you should pull the lens farther back with your manager leader pull the lens farther back so that you can see the bigger picture see more where we’re going think about the more strategic dimension that’s one thing. And that’s kind of more on the skills level. I guess on the there’s an emotional dimension too. I think leaders really care about people I think. The company isn’t what matters, the people that are and yet you have the people matter in order to build a company because the company is this enabler or for people to get to a better place the work is enabling and I think giving people better work to do giving people jobs they really want to have is a powerful, Powerful force it’s what I actually care about the most, I think all work done well is magnificent. It doesn’t matter if you’re flipping burgers if you do it well it’s magnificent and is terrifically interesting do whatever you’re doing well and it becomes terrifically interesting and so I think a leader embodies that with him in trying to  articulate what excellence looks like and helping people get to that excellence.

Jason: So, last question for you would something that you struggle when you’re trying to get better and you know as far as being a leader you know what are your views or are you now sort of learning or trying to figure out to take it to next level because obviously there’s a lot of things you’re doing excellent training but we’re always as you know pulling leaders that are doing that we’re now in a learning and grow and trying to get better or worse so we’re because people always want to know that they see the highlights but I was like I don’t know what they’re weeks but what are the I know well but I think more of just the things that you’re learning a lot about yourself and growing because it’s evolution is an important part of…

Stefania: fearlessness you know I talk about transparency I’m pretty good at that talked about insane helpfulness I’m pretty good at that the fearlessness I continually working on that, I find myself continually having to say no you stretch higher, go farther you can do bigger, bigger or pull my own lens back so that’s the one that I think of those three that I work on the most. I look very confident and I can talk very confidently but then it really, I’m like to go with. And that and then I pull yourself together well but then I go up there and I get I look really confident I do really big stuff and thinking oh my God do them figure that out yet how do you know I have imposter syndrome like everybody else does that every leader has it so what is it.

Jason: what do you do to help yourself make that leap of faith in order to be more fearless is there something that you think in your head or something that you do?

Stefania: There’s two things one is a use data I think. You have had a lot of success up to this moment yeah, I think you can you know it look at everybody else they’ve all fallen down a few times and they’ve done OK if you’ve gotten here and if they did that, why can’t you? So, use the data of other people’s experiences as well as my own life history. And the other thing is. This is something I get it from my co-founder. Briscoe Rogers has the opposite of he doesn’t think you deserve to live Briscoe has a core that the lighter uses you know that that clown that you got when you were a kid that you can whack it no matter what happened to bounce back up Briscoe’s like unshakable in his core and I thought I want to be like that so I watch, I watch him I think unshakable Core, you can do it and shakable core is not the only one of my life that I’ve seen like that but I see him every day, so it’s a good example to Reminder for a constant reminder.

Jason: Wonderful thank you for joining us today and it’s another new show of executive breakthroughs and we had a lot of insights, a lot of very excellent show today and thanks for coming.

Stefania: Thank you it’s great to be here thanks a lot.

[End of Transcript]

[Start of Transcript]

Jason Treu: Hello! This is Jason Treu and I have a fantastic guest here today, Ron Nash and He is the C.E.O and Chairman Pivot3 and he has a bio that is so long, that if I read it to you, you would be here, probably, for the next hour and so now, I will put that in the show, you know, so you can check that out on LinkedIn, he has a lot of wisdom and knowledge and we’re going to really get inside of where he came from, who he is now, how he manages other people, a lot of other fantastic insights. So, Ron welcome to the show.

Ron Nash: Thank you. I’m glad to be here and I’m glad that the audience is showing up and hope I can be helpful and they can learn something today.

Jason Treu: I’m sure they’re going to learn a lot today, you know, so one of the questions that I want to understand, is you growing up, so how did you grow up? Where did you grow up? Just you know, I think the listeners and idea of a little bit of your background.

Ron Nash: I grew up in Atlanta Georgia and that area and I think formative wise, part of the formative of my experience goes back to my Parents as most everybody does, but my Parents were each the first in their general families the first to graduate from high school. So, I mean there was a big difference. I mean my, both of my Grandfathers, one was an Electronics Technician, and one was a lineman for AT&T, the telephone company. So, you see the nerd Gene was kind of in-there and they are going to start that market technology but nobody had ever had that formal education, and both my Parents, just happened to have burning desires to get education. So, they got out of high school, Mum, went to Secretarial school, which was what women do a lot in those times for a year and then my dad went into the Military got the G.I. bill and then married and he and Mum worked through, you know, getting him through college and so, putting him through college was something where they worked in the day, they had paper routes in the morning, and in the evening, they had gone to school in the day. And I was born, when he was a freshman. So, they were carrying a kid around at that point in time, we lived in what today, you would call, the projects in Federally subsidized housing in Atlanta, and so I come from that stock and I see my Grandparents and my Parents and my siblings and my kids and I just see the difference that education makes in a family, and the trajectory with which they do, and when you have that embedded deeply, and you and I think also from my Parents and Grands, that they had a burning desire to succeed; far and away from what anybody around them had done.

Jason Treu: Where do they come from?

Ron Nash: That I don’t know, because I, just think they are both individual people, when I look at their siblings and their Parents and somehow, they both got this gene, obviously, you know, intense desire to achieve and succeed and I think they passed it along to their kids and so, that’s part and parcel formative great gift that I was given by my Parents.

Jason Treu: So how did you get in the technology? Obviously, I can see the heritage in your hair but is that is that one of the reasons why you decided to go down. The education wise to go into technology?

Ron Nash: Yeah! I mean, my Father was an Electro Engineer and so you know, we had that and in Georgia, Georgia Tech at that time was the preeminent University Education and I was good in school in all subjects, pretty much, but Math was different, there were so few people that were really good in Math and Math was easy for me, now you know, I mean Math was great I enjoyed it but, I didn’t have a passion necessarily for it. I really liked writing and some other things, but math was so easy and it was evident to me by people telling me and Teachers and Parents and such saying that I was distinctively good in Math. So, you ought to go into the thing where you’re, you know, with the tip of the spear, where you’re the best in the world, or have a chance to be one of the best in the world. So, I think that led me into technology.

Jason Treu: And so, after you get out of school, want to take me into getting your first job…

Ron Nash: Well, (this route in that) I got out of undergraduate school with an Engineering Degree and then I went in the Army and so I was in the infantry about as far away from technical ideas as you can see here we are in Brute force and Bron and that type of stuff and as an infantry man, and I was lucky enough to get the best assignment in the United States Army for an infantry man which is in Washington D.C. at Fort Meyer, there is a unit called, the Old Guard of the Army. It was actually George Washington’s first infantry unit, it traces its heritage to it, and today, although it’s a formal infantry unit, it does the ceremonial duties at Arlington National Cemetery in the White House. So, when you’re doing a full honor funeral, burying one of our heroes, they did that when some Prime Minister comes to visit the President and you have troops lined up on the White House lawn, I got to do that, so as an infantry man, it’s pretty cool when you can sleep in a bath with sheets and have a warm shower every day, that’s a blessing for someone in the infantry. But coming out of that, I had expected after my Military service, just to go back to Atlanta, Georgia Tech had a placement office that would help Alumni get jobs, and I expected I would go back after that and get jobs and actually, someone called me on my quarters one night, it was a recruiter for Ross Perot’s company E.D.S. and Ross was hiring lots of Military people during that time, because a lot of talented people were coming through the Military, and I called and said Would you like to come in and talk for a job? The answer was sure, you know, they were the only people that called and you know it was pretty easy and I talked to them and Ross seemed to be a pretty magnetic type of personality and his company was doing well and they offered me a job. They offered several cities that I could go to, to work. I chose to go to New York City and Manhattan, to a Southern Boy, this was a big change in New York, that evolved I picked it because I thought it was the toughest competition, it was working in the brokerage industry, in the financial district on Wall Street in New York, and to me, that kind of seem to be the top of it, you know, if I wanted to compete, why didn’t I go to the major leagues?

Jason Treu: Back to your family. Now they continued to go to the next level and tried to get outside of their comfort zone.

Ron Nash: That’s right just try something new and try to say and I mean New York was different for us, you know, somebody they’ve grown up in the deep South. It was quite different and you had to learn different ways to do things and you had to kind of adopted different style of persona just to get along and it really broadened you like you say it challenges you but it broadened me, there’s nothing more fun than learning. I mean there’s nothing more fun that seeing something that you don’t know how to do and then figuring it out and you figure out how to do it; I mean to me that’s so fantastic and so thrilling and when you go in a new culture, it challenges. Later in my career, I moved to London I was running the European operations for another Ross Perot company and same thing with the cultural differences of overseas; you know there was business which was challenging but then you put this all that low layer of culture and heritage and such like that. On top of it, made it more challenging but when you can do it, it’s much more satisfying.

Jason Treu: And how did you end up meeting Ross and where did you meet him personally and you really actually having interaction, what point during your time in E.D.S?

Ron Nash: I think it’s during the first part in the orientation E.D.S. was a services company and if you think about services companies, they all need a sort of evangelical type leadership; because services companies are inherently trying to say to their customer, look we can do this better than you can do it. Well how can you do that, you can have smarter people, you can have automation and you have tools but essentially, you can motivate your people better and so in services companies, if you look at it, if they don’t have highly motivated people, services companies are going to fail. I mean nobody likes to you know nobody’s going to have a service companies with people that are just kind of turning the crank and going through the motions they want to have somebody that gosh, have contract with those people because they have the greatest people, there so you know excited about what they’re doing, they’re so talented and Ross was good at that and so at E.D.S. they had a multi-day new employee orientation session. I mean it was almost like a part of it was part of it, it was like up pep-rally time I mean some ways you know, some people would look ask and it and think you know this is a little you know drinking the Kool-Aid type stuff but it was kind of thrilling at that time you, know I’m thinking gosh, these are bunch of people that are going to you know just work hard every day and they’re going to you know they’re going to push themselves every day and push each other. It was a tough environment they pushed each other to succeed but it was fun you know.

Jason Treu: What did you work from Ross to time there, what are the Philosophies you end up taking from him? that really helped you on your journey?

Ron Nash: Well I think, Ross is a good, basic leader he distinguishes between Leadership and Management and he you know he kind of talks about Management being almost manipulative type stuff or leading is inspiring people and so he’s got that he’s got the state down about leading people. He clears all the things out of the way that would impede you from being a success and then challenges you to be a success. He’s all about energy, He’s all about working, He’s all about doing something. He trusts new people, you trust young people, they give you a chance to do things I was doing things in my 20s that they never said a lot of 20year old. A lot they shouldn’t allow a 20year old do.

Jason Treu: But were you doing during that time?

Ron Nash: Well I mean I started out technical and went into business and then I ended up working for this guy Glenn Sale, Dr. Glenn Sale that was the Vice President that was kind of the cleanup man. If anything in the company got messed up, you know if there was a software development project that was a year overdue, there was a customer that was mad at them and was going to sue them you know after they tried to rescue it and this was like the get you know the big ugly That way the end of a last resort to clean things up and he had just a you know a few people he had three people working for me the time I was the fourth. And all of them had Ph.D. but me. So, I came in and somehow, they picked me to do that and so I just got to do a lot of assignments with cleaning up much of things and so what it taught you is that kind of mistakes that people make in business and how to rectify them quickly and how to get action fast and it was great experience.

Jason Treu: What mistakes time did you learn people making what really stepped out for you?

Ron Nash: I think the thing over and over that I saw was that people that, the people that were leading the effort that was in trouble, they weren’t bad people, they weren’t bad human beings, they weren’t evil people, they weren’t dumb people, they were really good people but they just were focused on the wrong things. Typically, they had blinders on and they were focused on sub-subset of it my undergraduate degree in Industrial Engineering was about optimizing a system and you learn when you optimize a system, you don’t optimize each piece; you might have one piece working at a sub optimal way, but that makes the whole system throughput better and these people just had blinders on and they were kind of doing what their Managers told them to do or their incentive program told them to do. They weren’t just opening their view and say wait a minute, what am I doing for the whole company? Is this building a great company, it’s just doing what’s right for the customer and they just didn’t have that in mind they were just following this thing, just following the contract not a letter or something like they are rather than stepping back and saying what we really need to do here? What’s right? And so, when I got in these scrambles to clean things up, first thing I had to do is just kind of sit back and take a big view and say what’s right to do? What’s the right thing to do? And once you figure out the right thing to do, then you can figure out OK now, in this system, how do I get this right thing done and who was to do what?

Jason Treu: So, who are your Mentors? you know when you were growing or during this time right now really made an impact on your life?

Ron Nash: Well I think Mentors change; that and you always think I mean when I read about things, people talk about Mentors and they talk about them as people that are older, people are more experienced, and when you’re young that’s true. I mean your Parents and your Teachers and your Ministers and Coaches and now all these are your mentors you copy them and emulate what they’re doing, you listen to what they say but you also observe what they’re doing and I think both of those have equal input it’s how they as well as what they say but then as your career gets going, you turn around to a different view, I came to be that I had Mentors that maybe weren’t that work for me that were younger than me, they were less experienced but they had particular skills that were better than me and if your place so where early in my career I looked upward for inspiration as I got higher in the organization, it was easier to look downward for inspiration and see what my peers were doing or what people and organizations were doing.

Jason Treu: Who taught you that? I mean how did you figure out to take a look at in a new perspective?

Ron Nash: I think once I got to be a C.E.O, it got you to be, lonely is the wrong word because you know everybody kind of caters to a C.E.O. but there is some aloneness to being a C.E.O. There are things sometimes that you want to discuss, that you don’t really know where the audiences used to go to your Boss and now you kind of don’t have a Boss. So, you know and so you’ve got to figure out another outlet where you can have discussion and where you can have give and take in everything like that and so you have to look downward and take pieces of it to different people at different times and so it was just a practical reaction I think for me for finding out how do I do better? How do I learn? There was more to be learned at looking at the people around me and the organization than it was for trying to you know look at some other C.E.O. of a company 10times my size and try to learn from something like that it was just a practical way to learn and so I continue my learning but my Mentors changed over a period of time from those in support you know superior positions to me to those in support.

Jason Treu: Of this it’s only now is the pain of doing that force you to take a look in a different way you’re getting more isolated for being at the top.

Ron Nash: Yeah, I wasn’t learning, I mean I was doing the job but I wasn’t growing as fast and I just learned if you’re not growing and you’re not changing, you’re not getting better; you’re kind of getting behind. The world changes, the world gets tougher every day, that competition gets tougher. So, if you’re not stepping it up, you’re not making it. I found myself just that was it wasn’t all just luck on autopilot I was working hard but I wasn’t getting any better I had to find an outlet for an intellectual stimulation to get better and I found it in the teams that were working for me

Jason Treu: Do you see now people you’re mentoring working with another company those Executives, do you help them see that, because a lot of times I see people not doing anything. They’re just feeling alone and they’re not stepping outside the organization. But for other people it’s a lot of problems and challenges south especially as they climb up the quarter ladder.

Ron Nash: When I talk to people, I talk about that particularly because and I talked about in this company way in a company this company that put a 3years is doubling almost every year and we had a company meeting and I talked to people I said you know it’s hard for a company to double every year its but it’s a really neat thinking when you’ve got that big of a market and that hot of a product that things are going well but it’s next to impossible for a person to double their intellectual capability every year. So, we have to try to figure out how do we how do I mean it’s a daunting task if you think of this year on that level. You know a certain level next year I have to be twice as good, twice as good, maybe I’m a 45year old person and I have to be twice as good in 12months, I mean that’s you know a daunting challenge and so I said, we’ve got to help each other, we’ve got to hire a lot of other smart people, we’ve got to do a lot of things; as are our companies not going to continue doubling if we don’t learn how to learn and so we just you talk about it and you tell people about it.

Jason Treu: How open you think people are that message not only open to taking action that’s the key.

Ron Nash: I think it varies. I think the A-players and the best people look at that and they start salivating and lick their lips and so they think wow! this is fantastic place to be, I had to be here at this point in time. Some people in middle thing, you know get a little lip service, like you know try some of the glass happy at the cynics say you know. You know that’s a bunch of B.S. from the guy at the top get out just ignore it. But you’ve always got you know a spectrum of people and my hope is that over time we open up more people than we have today, that we get more to buy and that next year, when it come back and we doubled again and I come and say OK look we’re in the last year we talked about doubling we’ve done it again. Now you’ve got to do so and so over time I’m hopeful that will open up more and more of those people because we’ll only be strong if people get stronger.

Jason Treu: So how do you look at that leadership one wasn’t really figured out is it because a lot you know. As the C.E.O. of a company, people are not coming up to you for the most part telling you you’re doing things wrong because there’s an intimidation factor you’re the Boss. So, how do you keep someone at that level? Keep yourself sharp and have people pouring out to you need to work on the hard truth, how do you surround yourself with those types of people? What do you have to do in order to get them actually to give you that information?

Ron Nash: Well, you have to recruit good people but then you have to tell them that’s part of what you expect from them; you have to say look, I don’t have all the answers and I’m going to take us off in a wrong direction from time to time and you are empowered to grab me and get me by the collar and sit me down, I mean I’ve had people that are in my group, grab me by the collar and said look Ron, you’re going to sit down in this conference room, you’re going to shut up for a half an hour, I want to go over the white board, I’m going to explain what you’re saying is wrong, you’re not going to argue with me, you’re going to listen to me for half an hour at the end of that time we’ll have a conversation, OK let’s go. And cash isn’t that important, isn’t that valuable to have people empowered to do that.

Jason Treu: You got to stay open to that you have to get just if you meet with them. No, you’re open to that feedback and then receive the feedback because otherwise people won’t do that.

Ron Nash: That’s right yeah and you can’t cut them off and you’ve got to listen to them and everything like that I thought it our company meeting in January, this company meeting I said look you know we’ve all got to help each other. I said I gotta learn how to be a better C.E.O. I’m going to be a C.E.O. in a company is going to be twice the size next year. I got to grow this year, I need your help to have helped me grow and some people were just stunned that a C.E.O. would say something like that.

Jason Treu: Because a lot of people that are that successful at that and the tip of the spear got there because they’re narcissistic, they’re working right hard and people like that are not open to feedback, they say they are, but they’re not.

Ron Nash: That’s correct! A lot of leaders of particularly in the Entrepreneurial space are visionary type people that probably have big blind spots but then they have something they’re focused on that’s really right and true and that thing just drives them forever and they know or all the other stuff and that works for a while but I think to build a truly great company, you have to have that visionary leadership but you also have to have somebody that is open to grow. Somebody Scarlet is just there are just very few people that are just come right out of the box and can go for decades and decades and leading and building a great company doing the same thing over and over again. I think growth and intellectual growth and intellectual honesty and stuff like this just very important.

Jason Treu: So, haven being on the board and giving feedback to people that are running the company, take me through that, like how is that trying to get feedback and have them implement it.

Ron Nash: It’s hard to be on a board, I’ve done a lot but I don’t want or I wasn’t asked or lots of it we’re talking as I’m an expert and seen a lot of well expert I mean I’ve made some mistakes up learn from that mistakes. Smarter than the average maybe but it’s hard because on a ball on a board really that the board has almost like a barbell type thing one level of our board to focus on strategy, long-term thing, project, some general processes but then every once in a while, something not going right has to dive in and say essentially, that the one question that the board have is does do I have the right leader? You know and how do I to dive in then now unfortunately lot of board members are kind of Meddlers, they’re much more comfortable getting into the mind of how you run a company efficiently or something and then they are sticking to what they need to be which is the long-term strategy right and do I have the right team?

Jason Treu: what you think matters? is it the fears here that people might be able to execute it, that then you know that yeah 22

Ron Nash: It’s again, it’s back to leadership when you when you get to be your first leadership job, all of us I think and I did this and everybody, you immediately think OK I’m going to get everybody to do everything the way I do it, and that’s the wrong step. You know nobody is ever going to do things the way you did them but you’ve got to get them to do is, get them to do things better than you did them in different ways.

Jason Treu: And you’ve got to look at the first lesson, we’re trying to get people to do it your way.

Ron Nash: Because I would start to tell people they were doing some way and say well why don’t you do it this way and then they would say well no I’m doing so and so I would have back and forth at some point in time in the conversation, I just sit back and thought wait a minute, you know what he’s talking about is really better than what I was talking about. You know and I’m the leader and Gosh! He’s got a better way than me even Gosh! I guess you know to go with the flow and do that that’s better for all of us and then I started thinking, well maybe other people have better ways to do it than I was doing it so you kind of detach from your own way of doing and I think in Boards, it’s that way too. A lot of times the board people have operated companies before, they’ve tried to do with, they’ve something has worked for them and they’re giving you that suggestion which is great but they’ve got to let you run on your own thing. I mean one of the most Valuable things that I got out of board members was sometimes, I would go and say OK the company has this challenge of this opportunity and here’s the plan, we have to do it and I take that to the Board and I have a Board member say Ron, I don’t know, it just doesn’t smell right, I can’t put my finger on it, you know everything you said was right, I don’t disagree with anything you said but my gut feel it’s just I don’t know if you’re I don’t know if that’s right or not I go back and look at all and I found that when I went back and look at it, maybe a third of the time I found out I had done a lot so that’s a fantastic advice but the only advice the person gave me was, I can’t tell you what it is just go check your stuff you know and so that’s what I think as a Board member, you treat you have to tell you try to bring the benefit of your experience and you have to tell the Management team, this pattern I’ve seen before and I’m uncomfortable that this pattern is optimal and I can’t tell you what the right pattern is, I can’t tell you how to redo it, you know the business you know far more than I do, but go back and check in with it and if you’re more right than wrong in those things that’s valuable contribution from a board member.

Jason Treu: What we do as the C.E.O. and also means the Chairman of Board that your own or do you have more numbers that are more meddlers or that are trying to get into them in order to get them back the whole being more the strategy and long-term vision.

Ron Nash: Well you talk with them just like you talk with anybody else and you try to get them to grow up into the right position and such like that and if you can’t then you have to change, it’s you know, it’s funny that you think of changing your Boss is but that’s kind of what you had to do at times you know because they Board is the Boss of the C.E.O. they pick a C.E.O. out and you know but sometimes if you don’t if the Board’s are not working right, you need to get it working right, you need to get the best out of all those people and such like that it’s another team and teams have to work well for the organization to survive. If you have bad dynamics on your Board, it’s going to not work well for the organization.

Jason Treu: So, I’ll like to know what time does it in your career what’s been one of your darkest days you know how you overcame it, get to the next level, what exactly happened?

Ron Nash: I think in the easy examples, the company Pivot-three that I’m with now, which is a fantastic company that’s doing fabulously well, I was an early investor in this company and a Board member and over a period of time, the company was growing but it got into a position with the leadership that was and with the leadership of the Board, where in a few years ago, it was affectively, financially mismanaged and was bankrupt and it was within days of closing. And so, I was frustrated I mean I had I been a participant in this. I was on the Board, I was an investor, if it closed I was going to lose all the money that I’d put in for my own the investment.

Jason Treu: How are you feeling at that point? It’s not just losing money, it’s the feeling that goes along letting people down.

Ron Nash: yeah it was letting people down. I felt an obligation to the people at this company, to preserve their jobs, I felt an obligation to the customers, to that had bought from us and trusted us to support our product and stuff on an ongoing basis that an obligation to the financial people and everything I was just frustrated and so I dove into try to do a rescue plan and the rescue plan in a company like that, when the good thing was about that the product was good the technical people were talented and the market was huge. And those things are hard to get, so hot it was just it was just financially mismanaged and so the rescue plan…

Jason Treu: Did you come up with the plan? Did you get people?

Ron Nash: Yeah you just know, I did with the team but I led the rescue plan and I had again doing turnarounds probably early in my career for Ross Perot. I’d say one of the things that a turnaround you have to do is, you have to establish a trust level of all parties. You’ve got to talk to all the people and so I had to go talk to the bank, I had to go talk to our vendors, that we weren’t paying our customers that we were slow and delivering things out to our people that were worried about losing their jobs and I had to say look, here is a plan; we can’t snap our fingers and change theirs instantly but we can change it in two years and here’s how we can be in 2years and if you do these things in 2years, I’m going to ask the bank to do theirs, I’m going to ask the vendors to do theirs, I’m going to ask the employees to do theirs and ask the customers to do theirs and if everybody buys and it locks arm that will commit to two things: No1, we’re going to be explicitly open and transparent. We’re not going to lie to anybody, we’re going to show everybody where we are, we’re going to report to them how we’re doing on the plan and we’re going to say; if you trust us, let’s go on day by day, month by month and if we make progress, trust us in 2years, we can be out of the US we can have all the money paid back, we can have our company have a solid financial footing and we can be off and running. And so, you’ve just got to get everybody to buy and all the trust basis and then you’ve got a monitor and then you’ve got to execute on the plan and so we did that and be executing a plan and in less than 2years we’ve been in the plan. We paid off the stuff all the debt we had been paid off, we paid off all the vendors, and you know nobody lost of Penny and the saying of the vendors It was fantastic. But it’s all about laying out a plan that you can do being very explicit and open with the people and being very, very honest and forthcoming about where you are and what’s working and what’s not. I mean I went to the bank a couple of times that 2year period and said, I know I told you that I would get this deal and I would collect this money, but I’ve got a payroll next week and I just don’t have the cash. I need you to help me and because I hadn’t done enough stuff over the time the banker said OK I’ll cover you on that one and then we’ll go and then we got going and then I closed my deal, got my money, paid him back and you develop that trust relationship. And so, once you do a plan like that, you execute it now what it does is it getting credible foundation the people at this company the ones that have been here a long time; they just think man nothing can kill us. I know, we know we were in that dark spot and we know we’re in that tough time and we know odds we’re totally against us to succeed and we did it together, you know they gives a credible foundation for the future.

Jason Treu: So, opening up trust and transparency is the key to getting out of that you are back in the E.D.S days I learned cleanups

Ron Nash: Absolutely!

Jason Treu: Is that the person it was going to be working with about clean ups, did he teach you that at that point or did you observe?

Ron Nash: Yeah. He probably taught me that and then another thing I’ll tell, He was one of the best Mentor things I’ve ever had. He was a, as I said, he was a Ph.D. in operations or just a brilliant guy. He was very, very, tough. He was very very; He was a strong ego you know he would go way out and he would you know assess situations and he was like a Bull in a china shop, he’d go in and say OK look you’re doing this wrong. You’re an idiot get out of here. So, it’s out I mean it’s really, really, tough on people and such like that and that’s just kind of not my nature; I’m soft-spoken, maybe I’m from the south and when I try to get along I can tell people right or wrong but I got to do it is a different way and I remember one time, we had been working on it was a part of the company that was working well and he had been working on it I had to cut out the work and with it with him and we were supposed to make go make this big presentation about our recovery plan to this big audience of like 25people you know half of which would be peace in the company and everything and so we’re ready to go when the day before he said I got something else coming out of town Ron you go and give the presentation that said are you kidding me? like 25years old you know are you kidding me? You know, I can’t go you know there are a listen to me oh yeah he said he you know it you know exactly; he said you can do and I said No they’re not going to listen to me, there’s not a chance you know and he said OK look; he said what I did he said you know me and I just kind of went into this thing like I was an actor almost and said Oh you’d walk in the door and say OK I’m here to save your sorry asses and you know go in this abrasive way and here’s why you’re idiots and here are the 5-things you need to do and I’m going to tell you this and I’m going to save you and you ought to be happy that I’m here otherwise you lost all your money, this thing would come crashing you know I go through this rant kind of thing and he’s back laughing cause I’m kind of impersonating him you know and at the end, he says perfect. He said just go say that and I said go and look it up go that’s they’re not going to take it from me I’m a 25year old kid you know and I got you know I got 6 Vice Presidents there, I got all these people. They’re not going to listen to me, there’s not, there’s not. He said look trust me, he said go in there and act like me, he said just act like me, he said you just did it. he said just think that you’re in a play, you know how I did it, get away from your own persona of how you feel confident and just act like me at a play and see what happens. I said it’s not going to work, he said look if it doesn’t work I’ll catch you; no harm, no foul. I’m the one that told you to do it, just go do it and act like me and I go in there and I tried that and acted like him and it worked. I mean I had these people like eating on my hands, I mean I was stunned and I have these you know 50year old VP’s and OK Ron if you were here what would you do about this one? All great advice, thank you! And I’m just startled but what it told me was how far from the persona of how I felt about myself as a person and how strong I was, I could extend that range way outside of my comfort zone and get away with it. Now, it’s not a license to steal but still, it told me that I can look at people that have different abilities and styles from me and I can pick particular pieces of their style that works in particular situations and I can just adopt that style even though it’s not part of my persona, if it’s the style that works in a situation, that I doubt that and so it was an extraordinarily valuable mentorship lesson for me just to learn that.

Jason Treu: To be stepped way outside our comfort, to step away out of the comfort zone

Ron Nash: And also, not just step out and also emulate things that other people do that worked. You know and do that on a style wise and basis and everything like that. And so, I think that’s applicable to public speaking you know so many people don’t like to speak in front of big groups and such like that and because they think something’s going to happen and it’s going to be negative for them and all but you know a public speaking just look at the best public speakers in the world and copy what they did, you know and it will work for you. You know so it was they act like me, it was a very strong thing that every member throughout my career and it has allowed me to borrow the best of what a lot of people do and to use it in my own work.

Jason Treu: And model after success. So, it’s not as all the time the model of model but why reinvent the wheel that’s our follow them along the way.

Ron Nash: That’s right and just get the mix that works with a particular situation. If I’m in situation X, I might be very aggressive and if I’m a situation Y, I might be very understanding and accommodating and look at the situation and think about what’s the situation? What’s the challenge? What is the mix of leadership skills that will work best in this situation? And then think about who has the OK this is what I need to act like in this situation.

Jason Treu: And obviously over time you got more confident, you took pieces of what he did, and put your own style with it.

Ron Nash: Sure! You internalize it in then do it and so I was never as aggressive as he was but on the other hand, I had to be a lot more aggressive than I was and it was a that became a part of me. And it became second nature after a while.

Jason Treu: So, let’s go back to the E.D.S. days. So, what lead you to the next step in your career? When did you decide to leave E.D.S? What exactly happened and how did you take it to the next level?

Ron Nash? Well as I said, the last few years at E.D.S I was a trouble shooter. You know and so I would fly into these troubling situations and clean them up fast, get them going in the right direction and then hand them off to somebody else to run and then I would come back and kind of like the gunfighter you know discipline you know blow the smoke off the end of your gun barrel. But the gun back in the holster and wait for the next call, to go to the next gun fight. You know and so that was it and so I was learning a lot but it was very satisfied. But there was another part of me that wanted to build things, to build organizations to build people, change things and I’m confident.

Jason Treu: Where did that come from?

Ron Nash: I don’t know, I just think this is part of my persona, that it’s just something I wanted to do. I wanted to, it wasn’t ownership, it was just building and helping people. I knew a lot of times when I was doing the troubleshooting. I’ll see people and I would think I mean I ended up laying people off a lot of people the times you know and I knew I wasn’t perfect in doing that, and I knew I was doing the thing that had to be done but I would be looking at thank you OK if these 25people, I’m just going to cut these people off, these people right here because that was the right thing to do under the intense pressure to get the thing righted as fast as possible. Out of those 25people, if I had time, I knew that 6-8 of them speak or are potential superstars and I just tossed them away and so I knew I was being long term somewhat ineffective with their inefficient with resources and people and such and if I had time to develop and change some of those people, they could be stars later and so it’s just that part of me that wasn’t satisfying and so I left to join, you know try to run a startup you know with you know six or eight people sort of going from you know running thousands of one thousand people to six.

Jason Treu: And why would you do that? It is easy to go to another big company that resume your job as work this was you wanted to build a company up?

Ron Nash: But I just wanted to build something that gets a step back and say, I build that and I helped do it I put my stamp out and everything.

Jason Treu: That went to the opposite sort of carrying something down now you’re up is that a building.

Ron Nash: Absolutely! Opposite and it was stunning I mean after all Miles after about six months almost left and went back to a big company because I was used to I was at a certain level at a big company and so when you get a certain level, the pace changes fast. As  you’re seeing, it’s not that you’re taking credit for everybody’s work but that the amount of things flying by your eyes is fast and you know when a person company we’d have a meeting we’d say OK what we need to do these are the three top things we need to do OK Are body grades OK well let’s go do that well no I’m but everybody was busy but me and so they all started going to do I mean so I felt like after about 6months that I was just like marching through a swamp with concrete overshoes. Things were going in the right direction but they’re going so slow compared to what I was used to seeing and I was thinking I was a failure and then one of the things that got me out, I went to some meeting of C.E.Os of startup companies or something and I start talking with these other C.E.Os and I’m telling what I’m doing and they’re saying oh man you’re a superstar and I’m thinking what??? This seems to be going slow as crystal, on oh you’re going you know my whole measurement system on myself was wrong and I had to readjust the measurement system in that first yeah, I did it through meeting other people in the same

Jason Treu: gain some perspective from now, that helped you see what was going on your life.

Ron Nash: That’s correct! That’s correct! You get a different perspective and again the ability to step back and look at a little more objectively with a properly made all the difference in the world and so I don’t back and built start up and you know and so I’ve alternated big company and small company, big companies are fine because the problems are more challenging. I mean the you know them the harder problems are the ones that surface to the top and I like big leadership task. When you’ve got a lead 3,000people or something is very different than leading a dozen people and you know so, I like that but also, I like the small company thing where we just got our team and everything that bonding in a small company is so much more.

Jason Treu: So, you lead this company, you know what happens to the start-up?

Ron Nash: Yeah it was it was successful. And you know I think ultimately got acquired and I went to another one and another one and I after 14years of running start ups, Ross was starting his second company, Perot Systems and I went back for another round at that time, or Meyerson was the C.E.O. at that time and I had been more accurate.

Jason Treu: How did he recruit you back? Obviously, that’s an interesting story. Did he call you out of the blues?

Ron Nash: Well actually the third company I was running more happen to be an investor in OK you know and I stayed in touch with him and when Ross ran for President in 1992, He brought Moore Dan to be C.E.O of Pro systems and so the company the third startup we sold sort of Shortly after that and Moore and said look, you know I’ve got a lot to do over here why don’t you come over here with me at Borough systems and so I came into there and so that’s how I connected with it.

Jason Treu: What were you doing with process at that time?

Ron Nash: Let’s say, I had several jobs, it to kind of to pin it on our organizational structure for a while we had 4people that ran America and 4people that ran Europe. Team basis, I was one of the 4 in the America’s team. And then next we went to a geographical functional organization and I ran Sales and Marketing and then we kind of went back to geographical and I moved over to London and I was running Europe in Asia geographical. So, I was to pin to the Bundy organization at the time that idea was it’s a great run, a lot of smart people got to do a lot of fun thing.

Jason Treu: What did you learn from Moore? What did you take away?

Ron Nash: And He’s very different than Ross. Moore is creative, he’s like a Philosopher in the you know he’s got stuffed into the technology industry or something like that you know it’s in some ways a total mismatch of the industry at all but the strength that he brings, the strength of this creative stuff he would get a number of different people outside, I mean there was this company that we acquired that I worked with him on acquired and hired anthropologist. I mean with the tech who do you know that has ever had a business that hired anthropologists you know much less in the technology industry but what they did is, they hired anthropologists to study human behavior kind of like Margaret Mead looking at the Aboriginal people or something and try to figure out what people were doing and use that for product development and I mean it’s really and it really was that they were really smart people and it really worked but I’m thinking costs more time how did you ever figure that out how did you even consider the fact that bolting on a company of anthropologist to a technology company could make sense. But they would give breakthroughs, they would get breakthroughs like one of the National rent a car with us it was our customers and they are one of the ways the  anthropologist study that they would put literally put cameras like in the real power lot and they would watch customers and their facial expressions as they came down, and you know if you go to (not clear) and they say OK you’ve got to rent a car and you’re slot your cars in but B12 and you’ll walk into B11 and this is a piece of crap old car and you look at be allowed on there, it’s a nice car nice and shot it is you’d really rather have it you’re stuck with B12 they pick that up off the T.V. screen, (Wow) And so they came to national I said a big differentiator you can have let people select their car. You know just like people select their car a certain you know if they if they say oh there’s a new Buick so and so and yeah, I’ve seen that ad on T.V. I want to drive one of those and you pick the Buick, you know that people are going to be happier and more loyal. Anthropologists I mean, how could you figure that out, you know and that’s one of the things that Moore did and one of the things I learned from him he, yes, he did not like incremental progress he just like breakthroughs for it things and he would just sit there and try to get new people to come in and new ideas and new everything, until he got a breakthrough idea. And you know and that’s hard to do too that’s a very, very different than the driven nature of Ross it was bang, bang, bang, action, action, action you know.

Jason Treu: How did they both get along because they have their different styles?

Ron Nash: I think the combination of the two of them was powerful when they were working together, which they were yes you know I think they had some ethical basis and business basis that they connected but they had very different styles and I think the company was stronger because of it when they both were involved working.

Jason Treu: So, then you got to the end at E.D.S, what did you do at that point because you obviously decided to leave.

Ron Nash: Well once I had this was I was so I was living in London in the late 90s and that was when the .com time, If you think of all these startups and everything and so I was a Senior Executive in Perot Systems and you know so Senior Executive in the technology industry and I would have all these recruiters call me and I mean the calls would typically be you know so I’m aware they’re running a few thousand people and doing all this stuff and they would say Ron you know we got this start up out in Silicon Valley and it’s ready to go public. We’ve already got the S1 drafted but we need a senior technology leader, a C.E.O. and if you come over to this thing and I can be C.E.O. within 60days, we’ll be public probably 5-6hundred million valuation and as the C.E.O. your share will be $32million and it’s like well 6months work $32m? You got my attention, you know what do I have to do and you know and well tell me a little about the company like what’s the revenue? Well it’s really pretty revenue, we’ve got about $30,000 revenue but you know it’ll come later and I’m you know I’m kind of rolling my eyes and I would say like OK how many people you know there are in the company? they’d say something like 17 or something and I’m kind of scratching my head and everybody in the US was kind of caught up in this .com stuff and but when you’re over in London, it was just enough distance; I’m thinking this it sounds crazy. I actually flew to Silicon Valley couple time and looking at these things and kind of scratching my head thinking how can this thing be that way that much and all but they were and so what happened was a friend of mine was a guy named Barry cash in Dallas who was successful in the semiconductor industry and they’re very successful picture capital investor and stock all very with what’s going on type question and he said to me it’s a credit he just nailed it he said look, they aren’t lying to you that that is happening. He said it is happening, they are taking these little bitty companies their I.P.O. going in for those values and that’s effectively, if you can sell your stock has to drop, that’s that that you would get he said Now here’s the question he said we all think it’s kind of a scam deal and it’s kind of like musical chairs How long’s the music going to play? He said, if you come along and one of these companies and you I.P.O. it and it stays up the valuation stay up there for long enough you get out a lock up and sell some of your stock you can make a ton of money but if you come along join one of these companies in the music stops playing this craziness stops, you’re going to be really sad that you left a big position at Pro systems to join this company that’s probably going to be wiped off the face of the earth and he said, I said OK that makes yes and he said Have you ever thought of being instead of just a business guy a future capital investor and that started my connection with joining in to west which with a firm where Barrett was. And so, I joined that instead of taking one of these little bitty couplings thank goodness, because these you know they did the music that stopped playing in like the spring of 2000 and stop playing with a thud.

Jason Treu: That you enjoyed, what it’s worth your time you know what was your big takeaway from that experience?

Ron Nash: Well I think one of the you know the one of the strongest things we were always trying to figure out how do you get giant deals? You know because, there are a lot of deals you can invest in and maybe make a little money but the ones that drove fund performance and we’re the ones that are you know you’d put money in the company would be worth billions and so, we went back and studied the pattern of giant deals that we all thought giant deals would be something that when like his team showed up at our office to invest again they would say oh we got a great idea, we’re revolutionize this industry and we’re out the lightbulb would go on we all say oh yeah that makes sense we’re going to do it every day and that wasn’t the pattern at all we studied the pattern of giant deals and when you start a company and say if you say OK here’s the product on them make, Here’s the industry I’m going to attack, here’s how I’m going to and here’s the business model many years and that’s Plan A and they go out there and start it and it kind of isn’t working and you think oh man! This is not working we’ve got to set different OK let’s do plan B and you change the industry, change the product, change the business, that doesn’t work you go to Plan C. Play B OK, these big successes average between halfway between Plan B. and Plan C. So, if when they showed up at our office, that was Plan A, what they succeeded was halfway between B. and C. So to me, it said the management team and the Board have to be agile and they have to be open to say something different maybe a different way to take this technology and if I had a different market and it’s not so much of just putting blunders on and executing the first break in what you think some brilliant idea is executing about why you’re doing it it’s looking around and say and maybe I’m not in the right industry, maybe I don’t exactly have the right to, maybe I need to repurpose this, maybe if you change the yes but it to me was a big strong west at about agility you have to always be stepping outside yourself to look at yourself and look at your company and say and maybe we don’t have it all right yet feels like it’s working but is there anything else we can do to make it be twice as fast or twice as easy?

Jason Treu: Fantastic it’s out to sleep over your career progression of learning implementing, break it back in the anthropologist with people that we’ve seen something new angle, taking a step back trying to look at massive list just as you did right here and then how did you figure out when people were coming in front of you, whether they were agile you know I mean what did you ask them specifically or what do you to figure out the people that would have a higher chance of executing what you thought was going to be plan B. or C. in the business way.

Ron Nash: I think the thing you have to do and this is something you have to do as a leader if your people are going to try you want your people to try things and to accept the risk and to fail also. I mean you don’t want to fail but if you’re accepting risk, you’ll always fail and if you scramble over everything like that and so you have to bill as an investor, I bond with the people like OK I’m on this team, I’m in this with you, we’re going to take these risk, we’re going to try somethings, it’s you know some are going to work, some are but they don’t work we stop doing that. When they do work, we do that one and we’re going to do this but you’re not going to be perfect. So, I’m not expecting you to come in here and go straight to the stars. I will bond with you, I’ll be in the game with you, I’ll be in the boat with you. We’re you know establish that personal trust with them and that says to them, it allows you to fail in a way if you have to, if you’re trying a big thing and you stumble and pick yourself up and go do something else and start running again. So, I think it’s a personal trust, it’s interesting at Pro systems, one of the guys that Moore had was a guy named Bob Wilson who was a very creative communications and advertising such type person and he came in one day to our leadership meeting of the officers and said, you know I’ve got a kind he’s got a concept called Game Balance, he said if you think of a Pro football team on Sunday afternoon when they play, they don’t learn that much; where they really learn is on Monday when they run the films of the Sunday game and they run in slow motion and they say OK let’s look at this play and run in a slow motion and the other teams linebacker breaks through sacks the quarterback OK who missed the block, who did something wrong, he said you learn in analyzing failure. And so, what I’d like to do is film in business some of the things when we fail, so we all can learn from it and everybody said Yeah what a great idea, fantastic idea, Bob and he said OK great! All right now I got to who’s going to volunteer to let me film their failures? for years everybody folded their arms. Wait a minute, do I really want to be put on videotapes, play and I mess this up you know, I was an idiot, I don’t know what I want to do and so he had no takers and then there came a time about. It was 6months or a year later I think where we were chasing a big international company to try to make a sale to it and it was in Europe and I was overseas when I was over in Europe and then we all so we’re chasing its partner in the US and so two thirds of the officers of the company were involved in this chase and we worked really, really hard and we all did everything we could and at the last minute our competitor cut their price by like 30% and just under bid you know and we lost and so I was just devastated. I was over in Germany and so I called Bob and I said Bob look, you know we just failed, we just lost this sale maybe this is one we can film and he said OK. I want everybody to fly to Dallas immediately, I’ll get the videotape guy and so we all fly into Dallas and they film and they film me. If you think of 60minutes when like Mike Wallace was interviewing some swindler in this when there was a lie to it how they zero lies away from his eyes to his mouth, that’s the way they film this thing and all of us looked terrible, I mean I had deep circles under my eyes and I looked like I had just been with up because I had you work so hard and lost this thing you know and all of a said this reading stuff about you know I did A and B and C but I just didn’t think D was that important you know, if I just worked harder by just one more that might have been the thing that got us over the and the reality of this film, I mean it was incredibly powerful because you had all these VPs saying I thought I had it, but I didn’t cover every base and we started using that film with orientation classes to let people know that even VPs sometimes fail and the thing that made it really needed 60days later the company that had dropped their price tried to gain back in negotiations all that they had cleared, and they didn’t sign a contract and the customer called us back and we got the contract. So, it was even better in the long-term but the gritty reality of that and that’s what I like to say to the new employees; you know that all of us have challenges, all of us have things that we bring that we’re going to do well, but none of us have all the answers and we all had to help each other and doing this, we all had to learn, we ought to look objectively at ourselves and at others and when we do that, we’re going to be a much more powerful organization.

Jason Treu: Doing a postmortem is really important especially when things don’t go well.

Ron Nash: Right, it’s very important, that’s when you learn. Here’s the things that trip to some.

Jason Treu: Interesting! So, I know you’ve done you know mergers and acquisitions, that’s why I wanted to ask you, know how, what do you think are the keys of being successful? In a merger and acquisition, what do you think people do that actually mess them up? Because, you know in today’s world, there’s a lot going on and financing such work, people be interested in your perspective.

Ron Nash: I think the easy things and in transactions, are looking at out of the technologies merged out of the business as merge the two and of all things those things are the easy things the difficult things are the intangible things like the cultures of the companies and styles of the companies and such. So that whenever you acquire a company, I mean you want all those people and maybe there’s some idiot there that you don’t like, that you want to live but situate you want all of those people and you envision them all working, just like your team works. But they come from a different background, a different culture than your team and so, you’ve got to be open to merging some things in the culture, and in the styles, in the process, in the methodology and a lot of these things you’ve got to be open to do that because you’re acquiring of the people, I mean the tangible assets like the technology if you buy or if you’re buying a factory or something those things transfer you know very well. But you also want people to get back to the saying about the agility that a management team has to have, you want those people, you’ve got to merge they have and that’s the challenging mergers is making those people who like it they have a company, and they were growing a company, and they had a vision of success at that company, and they you know they didn’t think they will be acquired by A.B.C. Company and it suddenly out of nowhere A.B.C. Company acquire some of their kind of shaking their head, wow! I have to adopt a different vision.

Jason Treu: How to do that how to get the cultures and especially the new people coming in maybe they are at Executive level, acquiring company people to work with for a long time and that’s it’s difficult when the trust factor is different and cold so how to go about doing those things, what steps does someone have to take in order to make that a reality? It’s nice to talk about it, that’s why I think most people fail.

Ron Nash: That’s right! The first thing is mix people up. I mean just gotta mix people up. I think you’ve got a fire some people out of the company just acquired promote them to some job in the acquiring company and vice-versa and just shuffle the deck a little bit and mix people up. Let people know that this is a meritocracy right off the bat and say we’re going to take the best of the best and give them the best jobs and they’re going to do the most forward. And that is the way that we’re all going to succeed here, and that’s a big thing. Secondly, you got to be a listener, you got to listen beyond that thing. It’s one of the things that I see Executives, the mistakes they make a lot is they get impatient and they just don’t look in-depth. You know we’re all we’re all vulnerable to a fast-talking person that says OK I got all the answers and here they are; you know and you’ve got to look past that and so, when you acquire a company, you don’t want to be vulnerable of somebody that you’ve got to look at what they were doing and you might be doing it a different way, but you’ve got to look 2-3levels. They can see what’s the real positive gain, what’s the uniqueness that they have, how can I use that, and you’ve got to look deeper at all it touches a little more tangible.

Jason Treu: That’s Fantastic! A couple last questions. Yes! and so success to you is what?

Ron Nash: On the other day to have fun and have some more challenges, every day on this earth is precious, every day is different, it’s just fantastic. I come to work in the morning, I think what I’m I going to learn today?

Jason Treu: Pressure makes people do what?

Ron Nash: Good or bad things depending upon how you react to it; like pressure can make you clarify your thinking, pressure can make you work harder, pressure can also put acid in the pit of your stomach and eat you from the inside out, you got to learn how to deal with it properly.

Jason Treu: Leadership is?

Ron Nash: Making people see that they can be better than they are today and listing them in a calm a common cause to do something great.

Jason Treu: And then finally, Mastery is?

Ron Nash: Well, I don’t think you ever master anything, I just don’t think you do. This world changes too much, I don’t think you ever master anything. You can get better or worse, my objective is just to get a little better each day at whatever I’m doing.

Jason Treu: That’s fantastic! Thanks a lot Ron, we appreciate that you’ve dropped a lot of jams and wisdom on the audience today and we have all of those things in the show notes, you can learn more about Ron at pivotthree.com. You will have all those things in the show notes all the winks. Thanks again Ron, for coming on the show today, we appreciate.

Ron Nash: Thank you, I enjoyed talking with you very much.

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